Who is this "son of man"?

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Paidion
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Who is this "son of man"?

Post by Paidion » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:28 pm

So the crowd answered him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?” (John 12:34 ESV)

As long as I have considered the matter, I have supposed that by calling Himself "the son of man," Jesus was simply declaring that He was fully human while He walked this earth.

But could Jesus have meant more than that? I notice that in the book of Ezekiel, Yahweh addresses Ezekiel as "Son of Man" 93 times. Why? Was Yahweh merely indicating that he was human? Or did He have a deeper reason for addressing him that way?
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steve7150
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by steve7150 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:18 pm

But could Jesus have meant more than that?









Around Dan 7.13 "I saw one like the Son of Man coming into his kingdom" , so to have a kingdom you must be a King or Prince?

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Paidion
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by Paidion » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:37 pm

steve7150 wrote:Around Dan 7.13 it says "I saw one like the Son of Man coming into his kingdom" so that sounds like a Messianic title or King or Prince.
The ASV, Darby, ESV, , HCSB, JPS, NASB, Rotherham, RSV, WEB, and YLT all translate it as "I saw one like a son of man." Also, the Septuagint lacks the article before "son" and thus "like a son of man." This would suggest that this person to whom "was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him," whose "dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; and" whose "kingdom is one which will not be destroyed" is "like an ordinary human being" (even though He is the Son of God).

It reminds me of the passage in Philippians 2: 5-8
Have this mind in you, that also was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having been begotten in the likeness of human beings. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient until death, and death on a cross.
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by morbo3000 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:40 am

This phrase is an enigma. There are tons of scholarly opinions about it, none having enough warrant to be considered "solved."

I love Walt Wink's book, The Human Being. His take, which I am sentimental towards, is that Jesus is not simply identifying himself as fully human, he is truly human. He is the embodiment of fully realized humanity. It is difficult for us to identify with the divine Christ, because he is the image of an unattainable God. But as the son of man, we see the embodiment of God's design for humanity. Becoming Christ-like, then, means being like the son of man. The human being.
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Paidion
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by Paidion » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:05 pm

I agree that Jesus was fully human while He walked this earth. But I also believe in his pre-existence. Prior to becoming a son of man, He was the Son of God, and therefore fully divine, and yet a different divine Individual from the Father. Dogs beget dogs that are canine; cats beget cats which are feline; people beget people who are human; God begets Deity—a unique Individual who is also divine. Though the Son is equally divine with the Father, He is positionally under the authority of the Father, always has been, and always will be.

When He became man, the Son of God divested Himself of his divine attributes, and became fully human. He could perform no miracles independently of his Father. All the miracles that "Jesus did" were actually done by the Father
through
the Son, id est, the Son was the vehicle through which the Father performed the miracles.

Have this mind in you, which also was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of human beings. (Philippians 2:5-7)

This is called by some, "The divine self-emptying." As a man, the only aspect of his former existence that Jesus retained was his identity as the Son of God.

But after Jesus' resurrection, God glorified Him so that He once again regained his divine attribute, and again became fully divine.
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:21 am

But didn't He also retain the authority to forgive sins? "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins ..." and the honor of receiving worship? So it seems that the "son of man" term has to refer, at least to some degree, to His divinity as well as to His humanity. In fact , doesn't Daniel 7:13-14 show us that the "son of man" was the Messiah? So for Jesus to refer to Himself as the son of man appears to be His way of saying, "I am the Messiah", yet in a very humble way. Once again I see God "hiding Himself" here. He who has ears to hear, let him hear, Jesus said.

I love what Jesus said in Matthew 11:25-26: "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight." So "infants" have faith, which pleases the Father, but the wise and intelligent probably think they don't need faith, because they think they already know what they need to know, so God hides wisdom from them. So sometimes, God's hiding things from men is a judgment on them.

Dwight

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Paidion
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Re: Who is this "son of man"?

Post by Paidion » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:23 pm

But didn't He also retain the authority to forgive sins?
I don't think the authority to forgive sins was an aspect of his previous existence that He retained. Rather, I think the authority to forgive sins was granted to Him by his Father while He walked this earth. To be authorized to do something implies it being granted by another.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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