Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

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Homer
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Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by Homer » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:47 pm

Mark 16:15-16 (NASB)

15. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.


It is often argued that the second clause in verse 16 is proof that baptism is unnecessary because it is not mentioned regarding those who will be condemned. My response has long been that Jesus never contemplated that people who disbelieved the gospel would be baptized, so there was no reason to mention their failure to be obedient in baptism. I find further support for my argument in the structure of 1 John 4, though it has nothing to do with baptism:

1 John 4:2-3 (NASB)

2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3. and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God

Notice that in the second clause "has come in the flesh" is omitted, similarly to Mark 16:16, because it is unnecessary to the point being made by John; it is clearly implied.

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jasonmodar
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Re: Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by jasonmodar » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:53 am

Good thoughts, Homer. I can follow your logic and see its validity.
My response has long been that Jesus never contemplated that people who disbelieved the gospel would be baptized
I would assert that Jesus (and his Apostles) likewise never contemplated that people who believed the gospel wouldn't get baptized.

I used to always wonder about the necessity of baptism for salvation. Now my attitude is, "Jesus commanded it, so why wouldn't I get baptized?"

I suppose you could also make the argument that anything past Mark 16:8 may not apply due to its questionable authenticity but that's a completely different tactic.

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Homer
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Re: Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by Homer » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Hi Jason,

You wrote:
I suppose you could also make the argument that anything past Mark 16:8 may not apply due to its questionable authenticity but that's a completely different tactic.
I have a book that I've only read bits of that is regarded as a strong defense of the authenticity of the disputed last part of Mark 16. Hope to finish sometime and post a summary of the arguments for discussion. I do remember one point made was that one of the oldest manuscripts that do not have the last part of Mark was found in the trash at a monastery from which the author concluded that it was not favored and that the old copies with the last verses were used, worn out, and lost to us.

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jasonmodar
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Re: Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by jasonmodar » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:25 pm

I'd be interested in that summary. Textual criticism and disputed passages are academic bits of Christianity that I always find fascinating. I'd love to say I'd read the book but my shelf is already too full of books I need to get to.

Timios
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Re: Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by Timios » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:43 pm

I used to always wonder about the necessity of baptism for salvation. Now my attitude is, "Jesus commanded it, so why wouldn't I get baptized?"


But what is the purpose of baptism? Wouldn't it be something like signing a contract? Signing in as a disciple of Christ?

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Homer
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Re: Mark 16 & 1 John 4 on Baptism

Post by Homer » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi Timios,

You wrote:
But what is the purpose of baptism? Wouldn't it be something like signing a contract? Signing in as a disciple of Christ?
Perceptive comment considering 1 Peter 3:21:

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB)

21. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The Greek word translated "appeal" is eperotema which appears only in this one place in the Greek New Testament. It has been said that it was used in the making of contracts.

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