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What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:06 am
by TK
Particularly vs 11: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous let him be righteous still; him who is holy, let him be holy still."
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:07 am
by TK
I guess my main concern is how an unbeliever might take this verse.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:49 am
by steve7150
Particularly vs 11: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous let him be righteous still; him who is holy, let him be holy still."
My belief is that these are folks in the lake of fire who are unrepentant and as long as they choose to remain this way will remain in the lake of fire. Then i believe Rev 22.17 is a final invitation to those in the lake of fire to repent and partake in the Water of Life and enter New Jerusalem where the gates are open day and night.
If i believed in Eternal Torment i might take this as a confirmation that the unsaved remain that way forever, so once again it does depend on your pre-supposition.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:28 am
by TK
Hi Steve-
What makes you think that the persons referenced are in the LOF? Just curious.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:50 am
by steve7150
What makes you think that the persons referenced are in the LOF? Just curious.
Hi TK,
I generally take Revelation as sequential particularly after the Great White Throne judgment so previously unbelievers had been cast into the LOF and nothing else is mentioned about them. So in Rev 22.11 unbelievers are being described and i take them as the remaining ones from Rev 20.15. Of course other folks here will have a different view of this.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:26 pm
by dizerner
This passage is not about people already dead (he says "for the time is at hand" which means soon in the future); this is a partial reference to the end time passage in Daniel:
9He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. 10 Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
It is meant to express that some people are set in their ways, and if so, follow through with your life choice to the end.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
I don't think it's meant to be Calvinistic, that people can't make a choice, nor that anyone is beyond the grace of God—I think it's meant to say, whatever choice you make, you should follow through with it to the end.
15'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:02 pm
by TheEditor
I tend to agree with Dizerner's take on this. Shocked, shocked I say! 
Regards, Brenden.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:16 pm
by steve7150
This passage is not about people already dead (he says "for the time is at hand" which means soon in the future); this is a partial reference to the end time passage in Daniel:
Right "time is at hand" simply means it's imminent so i don't follow how it refers to alive or dead or anything other then an amount of time. Also the folks in the LOF are not dead, they are resurrected and alive.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:46 pm
by robbyyoung
TK wrote:Particularly vs 11: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous let him be righteous still; him who is holy, let him be holy still."
Hi TK,
Dizerner is correct concerning:
This passage is not about people already dead (he says "for the time is at hand" which means soon in the future); this is a partial reference to the end time passage in Daniel:
9He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. 10 Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
It is meant to express that some people are set in their ways, and if so, follow through with your life choice to the end.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
I don't think it's meant to be Calvinistic, that people can't make a choice, nor that anyone is beyond the grace of God—I think it's meant to say, whatever choice you make, you should follow through with it to the end.
However, I do not agree this is in reference to "The End of Time". This is talking about the pending destruction on Jerusalem in A.D. 70, "The End of the Age". Never, is this build-up teaching an "End of Time" scenario. This is why all references, to the original audience, that the time was near
(What time? The Old Covenant Age and Israel's judgment!) is historically accurate!
God Bless.
Re: What is your take on Rev. 22:10-11?
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:45 am
by Singalphile
I agree that the author had
Daniel 12:9-10 in mind, but of course he changed the message ("rolled up and sealed" vs. "do not seal up"). As Steve and others have said, I think that verse 11 in context -
"Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy. 12 Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done." - was meant to emphasize just how soon "the time" and the "coming" were.
I'm not sure that there's any particular message in that for anyone today, except maybe that one never knows when his or her time will come and there may not be a later opportunity or desire to change.