Did God die on the Cross?

[Paidion]

When Stephen was stoned to death in Acts 7:55-60 we see Stephen filled with the Holy Spirit and he sees Jesus "standing" at the right hand of God and he says "Jesus, receive my spirit...". It seems Stephen expected to be with the Lord that day, the future tense is not used.

You seem to think of Stephen's spirit as something separate from his body. Consider Genesis 2:7

Then the Yahweh God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life, and the man became a living being (soul).

Here we have the first man—his entire being: body and "spirit" united to form a single entity, inseparable. For the man's spirit was simply the breath of life which God breathed into him. When the man was alive, he was a living being (soul). He didn't receive a soul; he was a soul—that is, he was a being—a living being.

The writer of Ecclesiastes described death this way:
... and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (Eccl 12:7)

That which is dust, the human body, returns to the earth, after death, and becomes part of it. But the spirit of life which God originally breathed into man, returns to God. There is no indication here that the spirit is the "real you", which inhabits the body and can exist without the body as a conscious entity.

Consider this:

Luke 23:46 (NASB)

46. And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.

If Jesus in the tomb experienced "soul sleep", His cry from the cross makes no sense; His spirit would not have left to go anywhere.

I know nothing about "soul sleep". It is not my position. The concept makes no sense to me unless its proponents think of the soul existing as a separate entity apart from the body, continuing to exist after death, but in a state of unconsciousness until the resurrection. If that is what is meant, I don't know anyone who actually holds that position. I have never heard of anyone who claimed to hold that position. The term seems to be used exclusively by those believe in the continuation of consciousness after death to describe those who don't so believe.

I am not sure whether by "My spirit" Jesus meant the spirit of life which He received by being conceived and born, the life inherited from His mother, that spirit of life which every human has, or whether He meant His consciousness, the divine Person who pre-existed as the Son of God, begotten before all ages.

I am inclined toward the former, in which case, He may not have existed as a conscious entity after death until He was resurrected. Then He was able to extend His consciousness into his disciples, and so communicate with them. "Behold I am with you always even to the end of the age." Though I am not dogmatic about Jesus' case, it makes more sense to me that He actually died like any other man. I think He spent three days "in the heart of the earth" (in His tomb) like any other man, and then God raised Him from the dead (He couldn't raise Himself; He was dead).

If the latter is the case, then He may have continued in consciousness and gone directly to the Father immediately after His death. But since He was FULLY human (not ½ God and ½ man while He was on earth), I doubt this to be the case. I think He had to become 100% human while He was on earth, in order to provide salvation for humanity. As a total human being, He demonstrated by His life that it is possible for a human being, by the enabling grace of God, to live sinlessly. All the miracles which Jesus supposedly performed, were actually the work of the Father through Him. Jesus once said, "I do nothing from myself." (John 8:28)

[BrotherAlan]

Having, admittedly, not had time to look over all the responses to the original question of this thread, i.e., "Did God die on the Cross?", I will simply give what I think is a straightforward, simple answer to a mysterious question. Since Jesus Christ, being one of the Trinity, is God, the simple answer to this question is, "Yes, God did die on the Cross," but, we would also do well to add the manner in which God died, namely, "IN HIS HUMAN NATURE." Thus, the best answer to give to this question is, simply, "Yes, God did die on the Cross....IN HIS HUMAN NATURE (not, of course, in His Divine Nature, for the Divine Nature can neither suffer nor die)."

This answer, of course, assumes that we know and understand that Jesus Christ, as the Incarnate God, i.e,. the God-Man, has two natures: i.) the divine nature, which He eternally receives from His Heavenly Father, making Him perfectly equal to the Father as God (thus, as Christians pray in one of the ancient Creeds, "The Son was eternally begotten from the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, consubstantial to/with the Father"), and ii.) His human nature, which, like all human natures, is composed of a human body and a human soul; and that the human body of His human nature was received from the Glorious and Holy Virgin, Mary; and the human soul of His human nature was directly given to Him by God (the Trinity working together to create Jesus' human soul). Thus, the human SOUL of Christ was, like all human souls, infused directly into His body by God. (Note: all of us, as human beings, have a body given to us by our parents, and a soul directly infused into our bodies by God Himself; of course, with us, our Moms and Dads both provide the "matter" for our bodies, while, in Jesus' case, being miraculously conceived and born of Isaiah's Promised Virgin, Mary, received His body completely from Her-- thus showing, once again, the tremendous role and holiness that the Holy Virgin has in salvation history for us). So, Jesus Christ, the God-Man, being God from all eternity, took to Himself a perfect HUMAN nature from that Most Blessed of Women, Mary, and, in THAT human nature-- NOT, of course, in His divine nature-- He experienced death (but, since it was really HIM-- Jesus, the Second PERSON of the Trinity-- dying, in His human nature, we can say, properly, that "God died on the cross,", but, again, it's sometimes also good to add, in case there may be confusion, "He died in His human nature.")

BTW, for similar reasons, this is also why that Holy Virgin, Mary, can be called, properly, the "Mother of God" (as even Elizabeth, in the early chapters of St. Luke's Gospel, when Mary visited Elizabeth, called Mary, "Mother of my Lord," with "Lord" there meaning, almost certainly, "GOD"). For, again, Jesus was born of Mary, and so Mary is the Mother of Jesus-- and, since Jesus is God, we can say that Mary is the "Mother of God" (meaning, Mary is the "Mother of God according to God's/Jesus' HUMAN nature, not, of course, according to His Divine Nature, since the Divine Nature does not have a mother"). This, again, shows us how glorious MARY is...once we recognize the infinite glory that Jesus has as the God-Man, and that we could never adequately express Jesus Christ's GLORY, we also and simultaneously recognize that Mary's nobility, dignity, and beauty, as the grace-filled Woman who willingly cooperated in the Incarnation of GOD (!!!), is also actually beyond any adequate human description (though, of course, Mary's dignity, as extremely great as it is, is, actually, absolutely nothing compared to Christ's-- for, of course, she is a mere finite creature who began to exist in time, while Christ is the Infinite and Eternal God, having simply become Man, in time, in the womb of that Holy Virgin, Mary, Herself).

For further helpful reading on this topic, I recommend the following links:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1D.HTM
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4016.htm

God bless you all, and have a merry Christmas as we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, true God and true Man, the Only Son of God (and the Only Son of Mary)!

In Christ, the Son of God and Son of Mary,
BrotherAlan

[Jose]

Hello all. This is my first post but I have visited here often enough to know that it can get pretty rowdy so go easy on me!

It seems to me that if one believes that God is immortal then one must believe that God did not die on the cross. I don't think I'd be mistaken in saying that most everyone knows that immortal means "not capable of dying". Charles Wesley was, I believe, a very godly man but for him to have written "Tis mystery all: th' Immortal dies!" was, IMO, biblically unsound.

If God can die then He is a mortal being. There are several theories claiming that it was God's human nature that died, but I would argue that If God is a binity/trinity then he/they always have been, and always will be a binity/trinity and therefore the entire "godhead" exists as a being that is either mortal or immortal. I think that if we are willing to disregard the basic meanings of words then we have no hope of understanding anything God has said.

Peace, Jose

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[robbyyoung]

Hello All and Merry Christmas!

Therefore does My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again. No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of My Father.

'The Breath of Life' which is an immortal eternal substance of and from God, when the human body dies, returns back to God -

Eccl 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit(breath of life) returns to God who gave it.

What separates Yeshua from the crowd is that He is The Self-Existing One, therefore He owns His Spirit, which is The Holy Spirit, where as every other human being does not. Whatever entailed the "tasting of death for all men" was, it was completed before Yeshua's physical body died -

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

This "Breath of Life", Spirit or Ghost could be none other than "The Holy Spirit" of God, which Yeshua's human nature or living soul always had. What Yeshua is "taking up again" is His physical body, to once again become a living soul. His Spirit was never in a state of nonexistence or unconsciousness. However, He did experience an awful price of the penalty of sin when The Father forsook Him. Thank God we will never know what that torment is all about.

Yeshua's body had spiritual significance yet to be accomplished, such as atoning work as our High Priest - John 20:17

I believe Yeshua never lost His divine attributes throughout the whole process of His sacrificial and atoning work. He had the power to remove "The Breath of Life" from His human nature and return it, for He owns it. Even His physical body was unique. Though without The Breath of Life, it did not decay in the least -

Acts 13:37 but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.
Acts 2:31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.

Our Savior is indeed shrouded in Mystery and AWE...

God Bless.

[Homer]

How are we to explain this statement:

I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again.

If Jesus, in the tomb, was dead, body, soul, and Spirit, how could/did he exercise the power "to take it up again"?

[robbyyoung]

How are we to explain this statement:

I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again.

If Jesus, in the tomb, was dead, body, soul, and Spirit, how could/did he exercise the power "to take it up again"?

I don't believe he was dead in Spirit.

God bless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[Jose]

How are we to explain this statement:

I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again.

If Jesus, in the tomb, was dead, body, soul, and Spirit, how could/did he exercise the power "to take it up again"?

Hi Homer, I would say that Jesus was not affirming that he had the "ability" to resurrect himself, but that he had the "right" or had been granted "authority" to be resurrected because he obeyed his father. In verse 17 Jesus says that the father loves him because he laid down his life and in verse 18 he states that the laying down of his life and the receiving back of his life was his father's command (which he carried out). I agree with dizerner that exousia would be better translated "authority" or "right" instead of "power". Some other translations bring this out a bit more I think.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father."

Weymouth New Testament
No one is taking it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it back again. This is the command I received from my Father."

International Standard Version
No one is taking it from me; I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This is what my Father has commanded me."

NET Bible
No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father."

I believe that when Jesus referred to taking his life back, he was talking about receiving the promise of immortal life that the father had made. Acts 13:34 “As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.' Jesus was a mortal man who was given the gift of immortality because of his obedience. There are too many verses that teach that Jesus was brought back to life by his father for me to be persuaded that he raised himself. I've probably missed some, but here are some that I looked up:

Acts 2:24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.

Acts 3:15 and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.

Acts 3:26 God, having raised up his servant, sent him to you first, to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness.”

Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well.

Acts 10:40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear

Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead

Acts 13:33 this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,“‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’

Acts 13:37 but he whom God raised up did not see corruption.

Acts 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Romans 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies fnthrough His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Corinthians 6:14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.

1 Corinthians 15:15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Colossians 2:11,12 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 1:9,10 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Peter 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Peace

[jriccitelli]

Not to be harsh, but to look at the verses from the perspective of His
The question in the OP was not whether Jesus died on the cross, it was did God die on the cross?
We know Jesus is God, so when we read that God raised Him from the dead, what is it referring to , His Spirit or His Body? If there is a clear distinction between the body and the Spirit, then the point remains the same. God raised the Temple back up on the third day, just as Jesus said He would:
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up’ (John 2:19)
‘Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are’ (1Cor 3:17)
‘He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach’ (Col 1:22)
It is not necessary to believe Jesus died in the spirit or Spirit.
‘By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God’ (1John 4:2)
‘For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess’ (2John 1:7)
the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh ‘Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires’ (Gal 5:24)
When did Jesus begin to be God again? When the Spirit entered Him? Or when the Spirit left Him?