Pistis - faith or faithfulness

[Homer]

Hi Steve,

I am very much in agreement with your position on this matter.

You wrote:

Evangelicals usually shrink from suggesting that God can have confidence (faith) in us (who, allegedly, "sin many times in thought, word and deed every day"!),

Years ago we had a pastor who would say something similar, from the pulpit, about being a sinner. I would cringe when he said it. He was a devoted man, consistently laboring six days a week when he was supposed to have two days off. After he was retired, well into his seventies, his wife confided in me that "nothing's changed", he still spent his mornings in study and after lunch spent his afternoons out calling on people and was still baptizing converts. So how did this Godly man regard himself as a repetitive sinner?

James said "we all stumble in many ways", but never indicated how often that is. Myself, I think we never get beyond the prayer of the tax-collector, "have mercy on me, the sinner". I think some people have a much keener awareness of sin. Zodhiates suggested it is sin to be out of God's will for us, and I think he is correct, then what if at this moment it is not God's will for me to be typing this, but rather to be out helping someone? As Zodhiates pointed out we can not know what God's will for us is at every moment. I think we have to be continually on guard against becoming like the other fellow in Jesus' story about the tax collector at prayer.

[Paidion]

Thus, when the Bible says that someone has impressed God, or Jesus, by their display of pistis, or that we possess a saving relationship with God through pistis, we do not need to choose between the English options "faith" and "faithfulness." In terms of covenant relationships, both exist simultaneously, on the part of both parties. It seems that the Reformation lost sight of this fact, in distancing itself from Catholic legalism and ritualistic righteousness. The word "faith" was taken only to mean "belief," which is truly one of its meanings, in certain contexts. Unfortunately, this set the Gospel, as understood by the reformers, in radical contrast to what God has always required from people—namely, chesed. It changed the terms of salvation into a novel policy of God bartering eternal life for mere belief—instead of an all-in covenantal relationship. The state of the evangelical churches, who think themselves proud to hold to this reformation distinctive, bear unmistakeable and tragic testimony to the fact that the gospel, as preached today, is very different from that preached by the apostles.

[dwilkins]

Steve,

I'd strongly suggest you look at "What Paul Really Said". It's not as laborious as his bigger books.

You might also be interested in the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Honor-Patronage-K ... hip+purity

In this book the authors track the implications of the ideas captured in the title. One important one for this discussion is that terms like "faith" and "grace" were highly contextual and don't (can't) mean the same thing to us now that they did back then. There is a longer argument to go with this, but the basic point is that grace is the type of contribution a local strongman would issue someone to start a business, and faith is what the recipient of that give would show back. A negative image of this would be something like the Godfather, though you can hopefully imagine how this dynamic could be used in a positive way. Neither term had the sterile meaning that we give it today.

As far as faith vs. faithfulness goes,

http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Transformat ... sformation

this one has a decent discussion of the issue. Though I think there are some holes in their argument they powerfully challenge some assumptions in Reformed and other Evangelical theology.

Doug

[steve]

Thanks for the leads on the books, Doug. They are now on my book wish-list.

[psimmond]

I don't know if y'all know about this site--http://www.thepaulpage.com/new-perspect ... /articles/--but about two thirds of the way down is a PDF called "Studies in the New Perspective on Paul" by Don Garlington, and it deals fairly extensively with the Bible's usage of "faith."

There are other resources here that are also very good, but Garlington is one of my favorites.

[steve7150]

This has led me to look at the Greek word for faith, pistis, and I have found it can really mean faith or faithfulness.












Yes good observation as it reconcilies many of Paul's statements which sometimes sound different. I remember reading about this and concluding Paul always meant having an active type of faith, which is faithfulness.