Christians and the Law

[Aaron]

Hi,

A Christian friend of mine gave me a book he relies on to inform some of his views on how the Law pertains to Christians today.

Do you agree with any of the following quotes from the book? How would you respond?

1.) God's Law definitely applies to us as Christians and to everyone else.

2.) There are consequences, sometimes severe consequences, even for Christians, who violate or break God's Law.

3.) Jesus makes it clear that we are still subject to the moral Law of God. Jesus not only repeats the Ten Commandments, but He extends them.

4.) When we violate a law, whether natural or spiritual, or moral, God doesn't have to sit around watching us and waiting for it to happen. The consequences of violating any part of His moral Law is built into the universe. God doesn't "push a button" to set the consequences into action. It simply starts happening. God doesn't have to pay any attention to it at all!

5.) Being a Christian does not automatically separate us from the consequences of God's Moral/Promises Law.

6.) As Jesus first coming was a part of fulfilling the Law, His second coming will be part of fulfilling the Law. (and not one jot or title shall pass until all the Law is fulfilled).

7.) We are not "under the Law." In other words, we are not to be pressed down and crushed by it, but, rather we are to "uphold the Law."

8.) Even when we, as Christians, sin, a degree of separation (from God) occurs. How much and for how long depends on many factors.

9.) When we sin, we give legal opportunity for Demonic Oppression. (based on Eph. 4:27)

10.) How can we fulfill the law so that we won't have these horrible consequences come upon us? We obey Jesus who said that if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind - and if you love your neighbor as yourself - you will fulfill all the moral commandments in the Law.

Any thoughts on these statements?

[jriccitelli]

I would agree with about all (and except in #4, where it says God doesn't have to pay any attention to it, that is odd)
I have come to read the bible not as old and new, but the more I study, it seems to read straight through without a break, or division from Genesis to Jude. It builds, but only in anticipation, that is of Jesus. It is all fullfiled, and being fulfiled, in Him and in us. The ceremonial parts of the Law we do celebrate and maintain in the spirit. And the sacrifices we offer and keep in Him, in us.
We were saved so that we 'could' keep the Law. But not under the Law, for we are now sons, and freed from sins power to produce good works, His works, His will, not our own.

[psimmond]

Here's an interesting read on Christians and the law:
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/artic ... ays.html#a

[Cheryl]

Hi Aaron:

Part of reading your question probably requires that the terms be defined. I say this because I've had lengthy discussions with someone about a particular aspect of theology, only to find out later that we were defining the terms differently. Hence, the reason for this post.

Some seventh-day sabbath keepers define "the law" as including all ten commandments; therefore, (in their eyes) if one fails to "keep" the fourth commandment regarding the sabbath, defined as sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, one is "breaking" the law. Some believe that if one has the knowledge of the sabbath requirements and does not keep them, one's justification under the law may be in danger.

Anyone who has not been a part of that sabbath-keeping system, or had some other reason to study it, may not be aware of these possible definitions.

How does the author whom you referenced define "the law"? Is there any reason you can't state the author's name?

[backwoodsman]

7.) We are not "under the Law." In other words, we are not to be pressed down and crushed by it, but, rather we are to "uphold the Law."

This sounds to me like a rationalization to allow one to say, in a little different way, that we actually _are_ under the Law. By playing word games, some get verses to say the opposite of what a plain reading says. But God doesn't play word games.

[Colin]

Here's an interesting read on Christians and the law:
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/artic ... ays.html#a

Whether you are referring to the law contained only in the ten commandments, or all of the Old Testament laws (and there are over 600 of them), I think this article is a good analysis of their appropriate application. The Old Testament laws were part of the Old Covenant, which was terminated when Jesus died and rose again, creating the New Covenant. If you have any doubt as to whether Christians are still bound by the Old Testament laws, please read Acts 15. In it, the Council of Jerusalem agreed that Old Testament laws applied only to the Nation of Israel, not to all Christians.

Now, that isn't to say that as Christians we are to be lawless. That is certainly not the case! One of the weaknesses of the Old Testament laws was that they were based on actions, not on motivations. For example, it said not to murder, but it didn't say you couldn't want to murder someone as long as you didn't follow through with it. In the New Testament, Jesus gave many commands, the primary one being "love the Lord with all of your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself". This goes far beyond any of the Old Testament commands. Jesus said that if you even think about murdering someone, you are every bit as guilty as someone who actually does it.

I would encourage you to look at the commands given by Jesus, especially the Beatitudes, as to how Christians are to live. I think that you will find that they are probably even harder to keep than the Old Testament laws were. But don't despair! Be sure to also read Romans 8 - those who are in Jesus are not condemned by our sins.

[jriccitelli]

I should stick to one topic, but quickly I am sure the phrase "rather we are to uphold the Law" is a reference to Romans 3:31 "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law"

We keep the principles and Spirit of the Law, do not touch the unclean, do not mix the Holy with unholy, etc. the Law has become 'personal' to each person given the Spirit that leads us into all truth , therefore we do not judge one another.
No one can keep the Mosaic Law in letter, or in the flesh, because there is no more Temple, no more priesthood, and thank God no more sacrifices.
But I can still say, as david did; Lord I love your law.

[Aaron]

Here's an interesting read on Christians and the law:
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/artic ... ays.html#a

That's good stuff. Thanks.

[Aaron]

Hi Aaron:

How does the author whom you referenced define "the law"? Is there any reason you can't state the author's name?

Here's a quote from the book "The NT makes it clear that the Law we are to observe now involves God's moral commandments and the conditions within His conditional promises."

The book is called "Restoring the Foundations" - it is not a topical book, but a ministry textbook with a lot of different topics. It is by Chester and Betsy Kylstra. It is sort of a counseling book. I disagree with some of the doctrines espoused in it - but I didn't want to get into those right now. I realized that my disagreement with the doctrines stems from a foundational difference I have with the way they view the Law. So, I just wanted to see what others thought about the way they view the Law.

One of the biggest things I disagree with is the notion that a Christian can be cursed when he sins.

They say that Deut. 11:26 still applies to Christians "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse--the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God..."

This includes all the curses in Deut. 28:15-68.

Basically, they say that the curses that come upon you for breaking God's Law are built into the universe. God isn't necessarily pronouncing a new curse on you if you sin -but God set up a system of sewing and reaping. They apply the law of sewing and reaping with the Law to say that when you sew seeds of sin, you reap the judgment of the Law (as Christians mind you). They say that even though Jesus became a curse for us, making freedom from curses our legal right, we still have to appropriate this blessing of the cross to break the curses that naturally come upon us when we sin. The implication is also that the curses that come upon us are worked out by Satan, who jumps on what he perceives as legal grounds to punish us when we sin.

[Aaron]

7.) We are not "under the Law." In other words, we are not to be pressed down and crushed by it, but, rather we are to "uphold the Law."

This sounds to me like a rationalization to allow one to say, in a little different way, that we actually _are_ under the Law. By playing word games, some get verses to say the opposite of what a plain reading says. But God doesn't play word games.

I thought the same thing - they are using a little bit of word trickery.