Christ's perfection / filling with Holy Spirit

darinhouston · Post by **darinhouston** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:59 am

In the gospels, we learn that as Christ was baptized, He saw the heavens open and the Holy Spirit descend upon and remain on Him as like a dove.

We know that Christ was without sin throughout His life on earth (or possibly beyond an age of accountability so that He was without taint of any guilt from sin). I have assumed that this was because from birth the fullness of the Spirit dwelt with Him completely all His life and that we could do likewise in measure to the fullness of the Spirit in our own lives. I understand we cannot enjoy the fullness of the Spirit unless and until we have been justified and transformed by our belief in Christ and our commitment to Him as Lord as evidenced in our baptism. I also understand that this wasn't even possible before Christ's sacrifice for anyone who was naturally conceived. But, even as to Christ, it seems that this was a special instance that didn't occur for whatever reason prior to His baptism. So, why not? And why did the Spirit need to come upon Him at His baptism? To what end if He was already fully in communion with the Father through His own Spirit?

SamIam · Post by **SamIam** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:56 pm

My first thought is the the Spirit descended on Jesus in the form of a dove at his baptism not for Jesus benefit, but as a sign to John and the others who witnessed the event.

Are you saying the only difference between me and Jesus is that he was fully surrendered to the Spirit? Are you saying that I could be sinless as he was?

darinhouston · Post by **darinhouston** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:43 pm

I think I am saying that but you weren't always and likely will never be full of and walking perfectly with the spirit. We strive for that, but it's too late for us all already.

darinhouston · Post by **darinhouston** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:28 pm

No more thoughts on this?

mattrose · Post by **mattrose** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:12 pm

I think Jesus was in perfect relationship to His Father prior to His baptism.

I think Jesus was empowered for His ministry task by the Spirit at baptism.

I don't think that means Jesus didn't have the Spirit before His baptism, just that the Spirit was accomplishing a specific task in Jesus post-baptism.

I think it is possible for Christians to live a sinless life. All that is necessary is that they be in perfect relationship to God. Do some people actually do this from the moment they become Christians until the moment they die? Probably only those who die really quickly after becoming a Christian. But that doesn't mean it is impossible. Everything that we need to live a sinless life (a life free from voluntary trangsressions of known laws of God) is available to us: A loving and active Father, the Holy Spirit, God's word, etc.

I like to think of it this way: Every temptation (toward sin) can be overcome in Christ. I've rarely heard any Christian disagree with this. Well, if every individual temptation can be overcome in Christ, why not 2 in a row? Why not 3? Why not 300? Why not 3000? Etc.

I was reading David Bercot the other day and he had a counter-argument to this. He said it may be possible for someone to run for a mile, perhaps even 2 miles in a row, maybe 3. But not 300! Certainly not 3000! I like David Bercot, but I think this analogy is off-base. When running, our body is being worn down bit by bit without something it needs (nourishment and rest). But when living, overcoming temptations actually makes us MORE prepared to overcome the next temptation (run the 2nd mile). In the process of overcoming temptation, we need not miss out on things that we need to overcome the next temptation, quite the opposite!

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:23 pm

I think I have to agree with Matt inasmuch as it would be theoretically possible to not sin. However, I certainly don't see it in my life. Try as I might, I fail over and over again. I've met people who claim to never sin, but once you start asking them some basic questions, it is clear that they still sin as much as anyone else, they just refuse to admit it. As John said, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourself and the truth is not in us.

dseusy · Post by **dseusy** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:46 am

Amen Colin.

dseusy · Post by **dseusy** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:49 am

The planks fill my eyes, yet Christ covers them in His blood. Good thing He was plank-free so He could serve as a perfect sacrifice!

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:52 pm

It doesn't appear to me that any consideration is being given to the inadvertent, unintentional, or ignorant sin. It is still sin, even if it is not meant to be. The discussion also does not take into account Jesus' faith which was a perfect faith, but faith nonetheless. Are not all the heroic actions of Hebrews 11 attributed to faith with no mention of the Spirit? Seems to me the Spirit came upon Jesus to empower Him for ministry.

verbatim · Post by **verbatim** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:57 am

Re: Christ's perfection / filling with Holy Spirit

mattrose wrote:

I think Jesus was in perfect relationship to His Father prior to His baptism.

I think Jesus was empowered for His ministry task by the Spirit at baptism.

I don't think that means Jesus didn't have the Spirit before His baptism, just that the Spirit was accomplishing a specific task in Jesus post-baptism.

I agree, but I think we will also received the filling of the Holy Spirit once we are baptized.
Luke 12:49-50 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
12:50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Mark 10:38-39 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink the cup that I drink? or to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
10:39 And they said unto him, We are able. And Jesus said unto them, The cup that I drink ye shall drink; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

Acts 19:1-5 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
19:2and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given.
19:3And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism. 19:4And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
19:5And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 19:6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

So, we must received the fillings of the Holy Spirit upon baptism or the Scripture will be against us.