The identity of Lucifer

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
steve7150
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Re: The identity of Lucifer

Post by steve7150 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:54 pm

We have little tidbits of clues like in the parable of the Wheat & Tares which says if the tares are destroyed during this age it would damage the wheat, but we are never told why?


As I have understood this, the question is whether God's servants should attempt to forcibly remove the non-Christians ("tares") from the world ("the field is the world" — Matt.13:38). This would suggest efforts to create a uniformly Christian society, other than the church, which thrives alongside the secular society throughout the present age. This will be the task of angels, not men. Any premature attempt to eliminate unbelievers (like that attempted through the Inquisitions) risks the misidentification of real believers (or future believers) as non-believers.





Well the source of evil is revealed, "an enemy has done this" and if this parable is taken literally then uprooting the tares would damage the soil that the wheat needs to grow so perhaps there is some negative ripple effect to destroying evil during this age that we just can't surmise.

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Paidion
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Re: The identity of Lucifer

Post by Paidion » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:56 pm

Hi Steve 7150, you wrote:So we understand that God allows mankind a lot of free will because it originates from his love, but why allow Satan free will when he gets destroyed in the lake of fire anyway.
Origen (185-254 A.D.) taught that it is not Satan himself that will be destroyed in the lake of fire, but rather his purpose and hostile will.
Origen wrote:When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God but from himself. Therefore his destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be an enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker. —De Principiis III. vi.5
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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steve7150
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Re: The identity of Lucifer

Post by steve7150 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:28 am

Also if we accept Satan is a fallen angel or entity is it so speculative to deduce that he fell because of pride? John said all the sins of the world come from the lust of the eyes & flesh and the pride of life. The last seems to match up with Satan.

steve7150
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Re: The identity of Lucifer

Post by steve7150 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:31 am

Origen wrote:
When it is said that "the last enemy" shall be destroyed, it is not to be understood as meaning that his substance, which is God's creation, perishes, but that his purpose and hostile will perishes; for this does not come from God but from himself. Therefore his destruction means not his ceasing to exist, but ceasing to be an enemy and ceasing to be death. Nothing is impossible to omnipotence; there is nothing that cannot be healed by its Maker. —De Principiis III. vi.5








Yes , one thought of the fire is that it is to burn away the sin in us and maybe in Satan too.

steve7150
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Re: The identity of Lucifer

Post by steve7150 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:41 am

Also if we accept Satan is a fallen angel or entity is it so speculative to deduce that he fell because of pride? John said all the sins of the world come from the lust of the eyes & flesh and the pride of life. The last seems to match up with Satan.
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Also because Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would worship Satan , this offer would have originated out of Satan's pride. Jesus was actually tempted in realty so for this temptation to be real then Satan had to really have dominion of these kingdoms. If he really had dominion since he said it was delivered to him presumably from Adam, then perhaps he is responsible for much of the things in the OT that we find hard to match up with God's character.

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