Job and Calvinism

[steve7150]

Does the fact that God and Satan tested Job's loyalty refute Calvinism. If Job were predestined to believe he couldn't fall away from God's grasp and why go through the charade. God simply could have answered Satan by telling him that Job's character and motivation is irrelevant , he has simply been elected by me.
Any thoughts?

[mattrose]

I don't mean to give a snarky answer...

But I think pretty much everything in the Bible refutes Calvinism

[dwilkins]

I don't think that's too snarky.

I talked to a friend the other day who doesn't seem to realize that I know he's a Calvinist (we go to a church where Calvinism is a no no, so he's quiet about it, but each constituent part of Calvinsim sneaks into everything he teaches). I pointed out to him that, though I agree that there is some inherent degeneracy in man, the formal definition of Total Depravity was over stated. I challenged him to show me a character or anecdote in scripture where people were described as being so degenerate that they couldn't even ever want to be saved (not one by implication, a specific example). Of course, he couldn't. There is a grain of truth in everything they teach, but the full definition of it is not scriptural.

Doug

[Candlepower]

I don't mean to give a snarky answer...

I don't think your answer was a bit snarky, Matt. Your answer is reasonable and accurate. I thought the same thing when I read steve7150's' post. I think that in one way or another, every chapter of the Bible refutes one or more of TULIP's petals .

[psimmond]

Calvinism is built upon the assumption that sovereignty necessitates meticulous providence, and meticulous providence means God has to control everything either as a primary or secondary causal agent. Of course this puts God in a pretty awkward position when it comes to sin and it makes it difficult to find justice in the punishment of humans for choices they had to make.