Did God die on the Cross?

[Jose]

dizerner,

The unbelieving Jews were murderers and liars who almost always misunderstood Jesus and I (I'm not implying that you are) would rather not base my theology on their blindness lest I fall into the pit with them. As a result of their lack of understanding, I believe their question was misguided.

You are clearly stating that the context of this passage and our understanding thereof is dependent on the Jew's question. I'm trying to show why I believe that it's not.

Jesus never said he saw Abraham.

Jesus: "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced"
Confused and angry Jews: "You couldn't possibly have seen Abraham, you're not even 50 years old."

I would like to point out once more that: Jesus never said he saw Abraham.

To me, the question that sheds more light on the situation is the one Jesus asked them..."Why don't you understand my way of speaking?" (John 8:40) This shows their how confused they were.

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[Jose]

So if a liar asks Jesus a question, Jesus will lie in his answer?

You're joking right? Is that what you got out of what I said?

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[Jose]

So if a liar asks Jesus a question, Jesus will lie in his answer?

You're joking right? Is that what you got out of what I said?

Of course I'm not joking. Listen to your argument:

If the context of an answer is not the question, what in the world is the context? You are the one who seems to be joking to me.

It doesn't matter how bad the character of the people asking the question is, it's still the context of the answer. This is about the most logical and basic principle of exegesis you can get. I don't understand why you think that's a joke.

I think maybe we should take things one at a time.

The CONTEXT of me asking if you're joking has only to do with your question to me about Jesus answering liars with lies and has nothing to do with any of your arguments. I quoted your statement to which I was referring when I asked if you were joking. Did you not see it? Did you read the second question in my reply? Let me expand the dialogue so that you can understand what I was saying. The core of your question to me was, "Does Jesus answer liars with lies?" to which I replied, "You're joking, right?"(In other words, "How could any follower of Jesus ever imagine him lying?") The second part of my reply was, "Is that what you got out of what I said?" (In other words, "How could you have interpreted what I said to mean that Jesus lies when he answers?")

I hope that's clear now.

BTW, Jesus never lies.

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[darinhouston]

Jesus was the master of double-meaning and turning a phrase -- almost mocking their blindness by answering not the question they are asking, but the question they would be asking if they weren't so blind to the spiritual realities of the Kingdom of God.

Also, "before" in English can be temporal or it can be in regard to supremacy. Perhaps this is true in Greek/Aramaic as well, and perhaps Jesus knew this and was doing what He so often did when answering their "questions."

I believe this is relevant to the "context" of His answer.

[Jose]

Alright bro, I apologize.

Thanks, no worries. Just glad to clear things up.

[Jose]

Jesus was the master of double-meaning and turning a phrase -- almost mocking their blindness by answering not the question they are asking, but the question they would be asking if they weren't so blind to the spiritual realities of the Kingdom of God.

Darin, I wish I could have said it that well; I might not have been so misunderstood.

[dizerner]

[user account removed]