Jewish vs. Chrstian

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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nancyer

Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by nancyer » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:15 pm

I'm posting this question for my son. I don't know why but I don't have an answer that comes to mind that I am sure is Biblically sound. My son is 20 and questions everything and doesn't have a handle on what he actually believes and what he doesn't. Please feel free to correct me on anything I have incorrect.

His question today was "If Jesus was Jewish, why aren't we?" I tried to explain that Jews don't believe in Jesus dying on the cross or the resurrection and that Christians believe in these things and that Jesus is in fact God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (I realize not all Christians follow this doctrine but I was mostly referring to our Methodist denomination). I also said that Jesus was't following the religion of the day and trying to get new followers to it but that He brought new teachings and understanding of God.

Please give me some better explanations and scripture to back them up with. I feel quite inadequate even asking this, so forgive the question if it seems too kindergarten.

Thank you all and God Bless!

dizerner

Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by dizerner » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:44 pm

Sounds like he's gravitating towards Judaism for whatever reason. I'd recommend this set which is very in-depth: http://askdrbrown.myshopify.com/product ... et-special

What your son needs to learn, of course, is the differences between what Judaism came to be with so many man-made additions and just the pure Torah alone (and there are a lot). The book of Hebrews makes the most vivid distinction in the Bible between the Old and New Covenants. The veil is now rent, the shadows of the OT have arrived in Christ, the fig tree of Judaism has withered, and we are all Jews at heart by faith and not by ceremonial Torah observance. The Jewish Messiah was prophesied to bring in a new order, and he did upon his death. This is also why his earthly ministry focused mainly on Israel, even though he ended up helping a lot of Gentiles too.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit

And many, many following Judaism were not and are not real Jews.

Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel

The Law was a ministry of condemnation:

For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Christ brings in a new and living way of grace:

Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God

steve7150
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by steve7150 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:41 am

His question today was "If Jesus was Jewish, why aren't we?"








Hi Nancy,
I believe Judaism is a religion with a lot of questions but really not a lot of answers. The Jewish people were chosen by God to receive the Old Covenant and to be a light to the nations. Throughout the Old Testament it's clear they did a bad job following God and the reason was because they are human and at times will
always fall short of the glory of God.
So Jesus came here and fulfilled his mission for many reasons among which was to reconcile us to God. There are many things missing in Judaism IMHO including a personal relationship with God and with Jesus we can be complete with God.

dwilkins
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by dwilkins » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:47 am

I'd start out with trying to define the term "Jew" in first century terms. This is more complex than it sounds, but you can start with the fact that they are essentially the descendants of Israel who were members of the Southern Kingdom (Judah) who were carried off to Babylon in about 600BC. They were known as Judahites, which became Jews. Some members of the Northern Kingdom who'd wandered back to Judea were also part of this definition if they became part of the nation whose capital was Jerusalem at the time of Christ. Members of the Northern Kingdom who stayed in the dispersion were not considered Jews and are occasionally referred to as Gentiles (strange, I know). There had also always been those like Rahab and Ruth who joined Israel, so blood line decent from Jacob was not a pure requirement.

The modern definition of Jew is impossible to make sense of precisely as far as I can tell. Since 70AD there has been a much larger emphasis put on proselytizing so that in some geographical areas like Europe a very large proportion (possibly the majority) of Jews came by conversion over the last 2,000 years rather than bloodline. On the other hand, in order for Zionists to make the argument that they deserve the modern state of Israel due to the promise made to Abraham, the definition swung back towards a bloodline decent in the last 100 years. The result is that on the one hand we now consider people Jews if at some point in the past their family used to worship under Judaism but the person in question is an atheist, and on the other hand we don't call people Jews who are physical descendants of Jews from the first century as long as they are Muslims. On top of this, Judaism as it is known now as a religion was not the religion of the first century. It's a real mess.

I'd emphasize that the point of Paul in Galatians, Hebrews, and to some extent Romans is that he doesn't want Gentile Christians to think they have to join Judaism to access Christ. Though Jesus was a Jew in the first century, Gentile Christians are supposed to be saved by faith in God like Abraham had. Abraham came before the Mosaic Law, which was the nation's constitution, so there was no need to join the nation or their religion in order to access Christ. Certainly, it was a big mistake to think that being a member of that nation by doing works of the Law such as circumcision and observing the Sabbath would justify you. Only faith in God like Abraham had would do so.

Doug

nancyer

Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by nancyer » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:29 am

Thank you for the replies and answers. I'm trying to get my son to sign up with Narrowpath himself but as yet he hasn't. Any further comments I will of course pass on to him myself, which I enjoy because it does start discussions between us. He isn't leaning toward Judaism, I can tell you that, he just questions points and bits here and there.

6 years ago, when we joined our church I began attending the Thursday night Bible Study. On Friday morning, while taking my son to school, I would tell him about the class and the topic. (We use the Wired Word and discuss current events and how the Bible and Christianity relate to them/ Very interesting, btw). My son would always have a comment or question that no one had brought up the night before. I started bringing him to the class for this very reason and he really does enjoy it. The rest of the group enjoys him being there, too.

Again thank you and God Bless you all.

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Jepne
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by Jepne » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:49 pm

Nancyer - I appreciate reading about your relationship with your son, and am happy for you.

I am glad you posted and enjoyed reading the input of the others as well.
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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Paidion
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by Paidion » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:25 pm

Your son's question: "If Jesus was Jewish, why aren't we?"
The short answer is, "If we are Christians, we are true Jews."

One of the verses Dizerner quoted, supports this answer:

But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit. (Romans 2:29)

In Romans 11, Paul compares Israel to an olive tree. He indicates that God is purifying that olive tree. Some branches are cut off (Jewish people who reject Messiah Jesus). Other branches are grafted in (Gentiles who become disciples of the Messiah). But the olive tree itself continues; Israel continues. All Christians are part of it, whether they are the "natural" branches, or whether they are grafted into the olive tree.
Paidion

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Singalphile
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by Singalphile » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:11 am

I wonder, in what way does he think that we are not "Jewish"?

We worship the God of Israel, we (mostly) accept the Jewish scriptures as God-breathed, and we accept a Jewish man as Messiah and Lord. The verses that have been mentioned here already show, I think, that Jesus and the apostles didn't consider themselves non-Jewish.

Maybe once you get some clarification from your son, if you didn't already, then you can narrow in on that. Perhaps he is wondering why we don't sacrifice animals and eat kosher and observe Hanukkah and such. So the question would be, why don't we observe all the commands given to Israel under the so-called "old" testament/covenant?
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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willowtree
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Re: Jewish vs. Chrstian

Post by willowtree » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:31 pm

dwilkins wrote:I'd start out with trying to define the term "Jew" in first century terms.

Doug

This is perhaps a good place to start. I am wondering if your son was thinking 'Jesus, as a Jew, in a Jewish culture, had distinctive characteristics of his time and society - traditions, customs, diet, religious practices, etc. What about a Christian in today's society. What physical, cultural and religious distinctives should a person have that gives him a truly 'Christian' identity today?'

This would be an ideal opportunity to explain that a person's identity as a Christian is not characterized by outward practices that work their way to change his life on the inside, but by an inner change of heart that works its way to change the outside.

Jesus himself took a lot of time to try and make that clear to the people of his day.


Graeme
If you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, always head for the rock. Ps 62..

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