Is God Completely Other?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
dizerner

Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by dizerner » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:47 am

The written word that describes G-d is using terrestrial words to describe that G-d, and can only describe what is known from inside that universe. There is no other way. And even if we accept that the written word is "revealed," it still is not capable of speaking outside of its context.
Why is it not capable? Can't it be supernatural?

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Paidion
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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by Paidion » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:26 am

Thank you for your contributions Matt, Dizerner, and Morbo.
I see it much the same way as you, Matt.

Let's just read verses 7-9 again:
7 let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
I think verse 7 explains the way in which God's thoughts are not the usual human thoughts and His ways are not the usual human ways.
For if the wicked person forsakes his ways and returns to Yahweh, then Yahweh will have compassion on him and abundantly pardon.
That is very unlike man's thoughts and ways. Man wants "justice" done to the evil doer. He wants vengeance and punishment. God wants deliverance for the man from his wicked ways, and wants to have compassion on him.

My signature statement indicates how different God's way of dealing with the wicked person differs from man's way.

Jesus, who is Another exactly like the Father, the exact image of the Father's essence (Heb 1:3) did the same as the Father toward evil doers on earth. He ate and drank with tax collectors (considered to be among the worst evil doers, since they collected more taxes than they were supposed to, so as to keep some of it for themselves) and sinners (this word often referred to prostitutes or other sinners involved in sexual immorality). Instead of stoning the adulteress according to the law of Moses, as the Pharisees who exposed her indicated should be done, Jesus did not condemn her, but asked her to stop sinning (that is committing adultery). So Jesus expressed the heart of his Father in all of his actions and teachings. In that way He indicated that he was the Logos (Expression) of God.
Last edited by Paidion on Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dwight92070
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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:50 pm

I agree with most everything in the previous posts and all of them are interesting. But may I add another dimension? I am wondering if we are also created in God's physical image. Biblically, isn't it possible to be spirit and body at the same time? In Luke 24:39, Jesus said, "...touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." So, at first glance, He seems to be saying that He is NOT a spirit. But could He be saying that he is not a spirit in the way we normally think of a spirit, i.e. as an invisible being with no physical parts at all? 1 Corinthians 15:45 tells us that "... the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.", so Jesus WAS a spirit. Verse 44 tells us, "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."

So wasn't Jesus both a body and a spirit at the same time (i.e. a spiritual body)? Couldn't He have said, "I am not only a spirit, but I am a spiritual body."?

Consider also how God reveals Himself in scripture? I am thinking specifically of 4 theophanies:

1. Exodus 24:9-11 Here Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and 70 elders of Israel saw the God of Israel. Under His FEET there appeared to be a PAVEMENT OF SAPPHIRE, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not strike them dead (verse 11). Why? Because apparently they did not see His FACE. But they saw His FEET. They saw a SAPPHIRE PAVEMENT.

2. Exodus 33:18-23 God covered Moses with His HAND and later took His HAND away to allow Moses to see His BACK, but not His FACE, because verse 20 tells us that no man can see His FACE and live.

3. Isaiah 6:1 Isaiah saw the Lord. He was SITTING on a THRONE, lofty and exalted, with the TRAIN of His ROBE, filling the TEMPLE. These are physical objects.

4. Revelation 4:2-3 and chapter 5:1 and 7 Again, God is seen SITTING on a THRONE, and in His RIGHT HAND, there is a BOOK.

So, could it be that even our physical bodies are created in His image?

Yes, there are metaphors used when speaking of God, such as "taking refuge under His wings", or "our God is a rock", etc., but these theophanies seem to be in a whole different category.

Dwight

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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:49 pm

dwight92070 wrote: I am wondering if we are also created in God's physical image. Biblically, isn't it possible to be spirit and body at the same time? In Luke 24:39, Jesus said, "...touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." So, at first glance, He seems to be saying that He is NOT a spirit. But could He be saying that he is not a spirit in the way we normally think of a spirit, i.e. as an invisible being with no physical parts at all? 1 Corinthians 15:45 tells us that "... the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.", so Jesus WAS a spirit. Verse 44 tells us, "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."

So wasn't Jesus both a body and a spirit at the same time (i.e. a spiritual body)? Couldn't He have said, "I am not only a spirit, but I am a spiritual body."?
Dwight
I agree. When you climb up the philosophical/theological ladder, you eventually find a ton of ideas are a consequence of your beliefs about dualism. It might be spirit<->flesh. Mind<->Body. Earth<->Heaven. Ideal<->Real. The conflicts between them. The superiority of one against the other. Their knowability.

I believe Jesus integrated them. He brought heaven to earth. He embodied deity in humanity. He imparted his body on earth as the individual members of his church. At pentecost, He indued spirit in flesh.

So to get back to Paidon's question. The moments prior to the point of creation (the singularity) are certainly wholly other. But when God united flesh and spirit through the incarnation in the person of Jesus, and left his presence on earth in the church he became no longer "wholly other."
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Singalphile
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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by Singalphile » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:24 pm

Is God completely other? My thoughts:

No.

I think we're often told, or it's implied, in Scripture that we can know God, which I think means that He is not completely "other".
Jeremiah 9:24 (NASB) wrote:but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.
Jer 22:16 (NASB) wrote:"He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; Then it was well. Is not that what it means to know Me?" Declares the LORD.
That is all meaningless if His "lovingkindness" and "justice", etc. are incomprehensible. Yes, His ways and thoughts are higher, and, yes, we can't see everything clearly. That doesn't mean that we accept logical contradiction or that God says one thing but actually means something else mysterious and unknowable. We can understand everything about Him that we need to, I think. His likes and dislikes are among those things, I think.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

dizerner

Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:10 pm

Eh, I think it's a bit of a straw man to say "There's lots we can understand and relate to with God therefore he's not other." There's got to be a part of God that's beyond our capacity to know.

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Paidion
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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by Paidion » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:25 pm

Singalphile, I agree with you completely.

Dizerner, you have misrepresented what Singalphile wrote. He didn't write, "There's lots we can understand and relate to with God therefore he's not other."
Rather, he wrote, "I think we're often told, or it's implied, in Scripture that we can know God, which I think means that He is not completely 'other'.
"Completely" is the operative word here.

No one who contributes to this forum affirms that God is not other—that He's just another human being.

What is being discussed here is whether or not God is Something or Someone COMPLETELY different from us.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dizerner

Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:48 pm

It's all operative on how you use the word completely, whether it means the "other" part is completely other, or whether it means the "God" part is completely "other."

If I misunderstood Singaphile I apologize that's obviously not an intentional "straw man" and I think people should pull that accusation out far less then they do. Arguing in good faith means you ask for clarification before knee-jerk reactions.

regards

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Paidion
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Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by Paidion » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:14 pm

There's no "God part" and "other part." The title of this thread is, "Is God Completely Other?" The question is about God, not some "God part" whatever you mean by that.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Is God Completely Other?

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:30 pm

Paidion wrote:There's no "God part" and "other part." The title of this thread is, "Is God Completely Other?" The question is about God, not some "God part" whatever you mean by that.
Well I mean a part of God. Isn't there really a part of each of us that no one else truly knows?

If I'm not making sense I have severe sleep deprivation and apologize, lol.

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