Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by Paidion » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:21 pm

Paidion, isn't it possible that his letting go ended ended at the time of his death?
Everything ended for Him at the time of his death. He died! But the Father raised Him from death.
While I agree during his life the acts were of the Father but weren't they through the Holy Spirit? Wondering why you left that part out.
Left what part out? The Holy Spirit? The Lord [Jesus] is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17)
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

crgfstr1
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:25 am

Paidion wrote:
While I agree during his life the acts were of the Father but weren't they through the Holy Spirit? Wondering why you left that part out.
Left what part out? The Holy Spirit? The Lord [Jesus] is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17)
Thanks Paidion. So how does the following work?

 Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,  22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:17 pm

How does it work? Could you make that question clearer? However, until you do, I will presume you are asking, "If Jesus IS the Spirit, how could the Spirit descend upon Him as if it were something other than He Himself?"

When we understand that the Holy Spirit is the extension of the Persons of the Father and the Son throughout the Universe and especially in the hearts of the faithful, it becomes clear. It was the spirit of the Father who descended upon Jesus. While Jesus was on earth, his spirit was confined to his body. That is why Jesus said that unless He departed from them the Advocate would not come to them. He called the Spirit "the Advocate" (also translated as "Helper" and "Comforter").

It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.(John 16:7)

Jesus also explained in John 14, that He would come into his Father's House (The Body that He had prepared) and prepare a place in it for each of them, and dwell therein Himself. This He has done. He and the Father now dwell within Christ's people and direct them. That is the Spirit that could not come until Jesus died and was raised again (for it would not include Him). Jesus and his Father are so perfectly united in every way—in purpose, in power, in love, etc. that They are perfectly united in one Spirit. That spirit is not merely the power of the Father and the Son, but it is the very Persons of the Father and the Son, and is thus personal indeed (but not a Person that differs from the Persons of the Father and the Son).
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

crgfstr1
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:38 pm

Thanks Paidion. That was my question. I didn't want to sound offensive such as "How did he descend upon himself?"

crgfstr1
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:56 pm

Paidion, How are we to understand this if Jesus is Holy Spirit?

Luke 12: 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who mblasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Why do no Hymns Speak of God Raising Jesus?

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:48 pm

Hi cgrfstr1, you wrote:Paidion, How are we to understand this if Jesus is Holy Spirit?

Luke 12: 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who mblasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
I understand it as follows:

There is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is "another advocate" (see John 14:16). That fact does not imply that the Spirit is a third divine Individual or Person, but is rather the extension of the Person of Jesus (and the Person of the Father). The Father dwells particularly in heaven with the Son seated at his right hand (Mark 16:19) and sometimes standing at his right hand (Acts 7:55,56). So the extension of the Persons of the Father and the Son is different from the Persons of the Father and the Son as they are in heaven.

As I see it, when Paul wrote that the Lord [Jesus] is the Spirit, He was saying that Jesus and the Spirit are the same divine Person. In the same verse, Paul referred to "the spirit of the Lord [Jesus], that is the presence of Jesus here on earth, in the hearts of his people, even though He dwells in heaven in a special way.

In the words of our Lord that you quoted above, I think He is saying that if one spoke against Him while he remained a human being here on earth, he could be forgiven. But to blaspheme the blessed presence of the Father and of the Son (the Spirit) who indwells and works through his people will not be forgiven.

In Matthew's account of this same incident, the Pharisees, when they heard that Jesus was casting out demons, said:

“It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” (Matthew 12:24)

In response to this, Jesus said in part:

Now if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (Matthew 12:27,28)

Since Jesus cast out demons through the spirit of God his Father, then the Pharisees, by claiming that He was casting them out through Beelzebul, were blaspheming the spirit of God. That's when Jesus said:

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matthew 12:31,32)

So Jesus was emphasizing what a serious matter it is to attribute the work of the spirit of God to demons. It is blasphemy against the spirit of God, and thus against God Himself.

The following passage may also help us to understand that for us disciples of Christ there are two divine Persons:

For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Notice that Paul didn't include a third divine Person in this statement.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

Post Reply

Return to “Theology Proper, Christology, Pneumatology”