Saints and sinners

[Paidion]

Thanks Paidion.

You know, the ever-changing avatars throw me for a loop. What happened to the last one where you looked like a member of The Four Lads?

I grew out of that one after I ceased being 23 years of age.

In my case, "ever-changing avatars" are all myself at various ages. If you look just below my signature statement, you will notice that I always say what my age is with regard to my avatar. My current one is the most recent photo of me. I am now 76.

[morbo3000]

You are right, Brenden. The Greek word translated as "doctrine" actually means "teaching". This Christian teaching was instruction in ways to live a Godly, righteous life.

Which I think is making my original point. (btw.. I'm not debating at all. That's for another thread. )

That theology does matter. Certain beliefs lead to a certain life.

One example that is made (I'm not sure if I agree) is that because the trinity is in community, we are meant to not be alone.

This is an antidote to asceticism. Or isolation.

The sinner/saint statement resonates with my own sinfulness and necessity to always rely on God. To never give in to any belief that I can make any effort.

I was talking with an alcoholic about this and how some would say that once you are a Christian, and have repented of alcohol, you are no longer an alcoholic. She said "You know how I know I'm an alcoholic? Because if I ever drink one drink, I will go off the rails. It is only through total abstinence that that doesn't happen."

Of course A.A., like Lutheran churches, put their reliance for that on God. I'm not interested in debating A.A. But it is an example of how realizing how unable we are to be "saints" puts us in the position to be changed by God. And to never think we can do anything about it.

Anyway.. that's my experience. I won't mind hearing more about the tension between those. What the difference is between one who sins and a sinner.

[Paidion]

I was talking with an alcoholic about this and how some would say that once you are a Christian, and have repented of alcohol, you are no longer an alcoholic. She said "You know how I know I'm an alcoholic? Because if I ever drink one drink, I will go off the rails. It is only through total abstinence that that doesn't happen."

Well, that's the A.A. doctrine. I have a friend who was an alcoholic, and who was delivered from alcholism by the power of Christ. He continued to attend A.A. meetings. The participants are required to say, "My name is — . I am an alcoholic". My friend knew he was no longer an alcoholic. He could take a drink or two any time, and not once did he "go off the rails". However, he became convicted of saying, "My name is — . I am an alcoholic." He became convicted of lying. So he made up his mind, at the next meeting to say, "My name is — . I am no longer an alcoholic. I have been delivered by the power of Christ." He was sure he would be kicked out of A.A when he did, but he carried out his intention, and sure enough, he was kicked out.

What's the difference is between one who sins and a sinner?

We might ask, "What's What's the difference is between one who farms and a farmer?"
If I go out and help my neighbour bring in his crop, does that make me a farmer?

If a person sins as a way of life, he is a sinner; if not, he is not a sinner.

[darinhouston]

Doctrine exist for the sake of delight...

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/r ... ep-feeling