Cottrell on Law and Grace

Man, Sin, & Salvation
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Homer
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Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by Homer » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:42 pm

I am reading Jack Cottrell's Romans commentary. In the introduction, Volume 1, Cottrell makes the following statement:

"Also, the contrast between law and grace - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - is not simply the Law of Moses verses the grace of Jesus Christ. No sinner has ever been saved nor can be saved by the law that applies to him, whether it be the Law of Moses for Jews under the Old Covenant, or some other comparable set of God's commandments for anyone else in any other time. Every sinner who has been saved since the time of Adam has been saved by grace and not by law, and this will always be the case."

I agree with Cottrell. If man can be saved by works of law (any law), Jesus died for nothing.

What say you?

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steve
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by steve » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:01 am

This is true.

However, I don't believe this is what Romans is talking about. I think Paul is addressing Jewish snobbery about their uniquely having God's law (2:17-20). The particular laws in which the Jews boasted were not the moral laws—e.g., do not murder, do not bear false witness, do not commit adultery (which even the Gentile societies have generally recognized), but the ceremonial laws that distinguished Israel as a "holy" people—e.g., circumcision (2:25-29), dietary restrictions (14:2), sabbath observance (14:5), etc.

In Romans, Paul's message is not contrasting grace and works, in general, but universal grace with particular ritual observances, specifically. Romans (like the rest of scripture) is emphatic about the importance of obedience (1:5; 2:13, 26; 6:16,17; 10:16; 16:19, 26) and good works (2:6-7, 10; 13:12). Of course, the works of righteousness that we are to do are not the basis of our justification, but the fruit of a relationship with Christ (6:22; 7:4).

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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by dizerner » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:56 am

Homer wrote: If man can be saved by works of law (any law), Jesus died for nothing.

What say you?
I believe that is exactly so. Paul says something interesting about grace though, that grace doesn't leave us as we are, but grace changes us from the inside out. In fact he says something remarkable, something the external Law could never, ever do in a million lifetimes:

so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us

If we think about the greatest two commandments, we can realize they are entirely internal, and that indeed, by definition, it would seem true love is hardly something you can command someone to do, or be able to measure externally.

Yet love is the command Jesus fulfilled the most, and love is the free gift of grace in our hearts, Christ living in us. The greatest miracle in all of creation, is to change a man's heart. And the Law did nothing but show the need of a change.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by robbyyoung » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:03 am

steve wrote:Of course, the works of righteousness that we are to do are not the basis of our justification, but the fruit of a relationship with Christ (6:22; 7:4).
Hi Steve,

So basically, no good fruit = no relationship = no grace = no slavation. However, repentance, at the fruit and relationship positions, could mend broken fences. Is this a fair summation?

God Bless.

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steve
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by steve » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:50 am

Sure.

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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by jriccitelli » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:57 am

Diz wrote; "... grace changes us from the inside out... that indeed, by definition, it would seem true love is hardly something you can command someone to do, or be able to measure externally... The greatest miracle in all of creation, is to change a man's heart"
Amen, and Amen. And your last line reminds me of a statement: 'Of all Gods creations and amazing designs, the most impressive if not the most impossible miracle in all creation would be to somehow get numerous beings, all with their own free-wills, and of their own freewill, to agree and obey'... 'Only a greater and immensely wonderful act of sacrifice by another being with freewill, could disarm such beings to see something greater than their own freewill, and bow down to a will other than their own, purely for love and reason'

'And the Law did nothing but show the need of a change'

The Law did hold the answer though: Jesus, the blood, and the sacrifice. Which would save them, by faith, by which they were saved :)

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Paidion
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by Paidion » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:00 pm

Homer wrote:If man can be saved by works of law (any law), Jesus died for nothing.

What say you?
How one is using the word "saved" is most relevant to the question. Many teach that we need to be saved from hell, and we can be thus saved by "accepting Christ" or "praying the sinner's prayer" or "accepting the finished work of Christ on the cross" or "realizing that I am a sinner and that Christ died for me and asking Him into my heart" or ... (one of the many other similar formulae).

As I see it, Jesus died to enable us to overcome wrongdoing (I have quoted the passages many times which affirm this), and that through Him, we who have submitted to Him are in the process of being saved from sin.
Paul wrote:And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6 ESV)
This seems to indicate salvation from sin as a process which shall be completed at the coming of Jesus.
God wants loving and righteous children, and those who are on the Narrow Path which leads to life, are acceptable to Him.

We have been too influenced by Protestantism and in particular, Martin Luther, so as to see good works and law as useless. Our coöperation with God is necessary in order to receive His enabling grace, and our part in that is works.
Paul wrote:Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain. (2 Corinthians 6:1 ESV)
If we do not work together (synergism) with Him, then any "grace" we receive from Him will be in vain.

Also, if we are disciples of Christ we are under law—not the law of Moses, but the law of Christ.
Paul wrote:To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. (1 Corinthians 9:20,21)
Paul states here that to those outside the law (Gentiles), he became as one outside the law that he might win them. But he indicates parenthetically that while being outside the law, his is still under the law of Christ. What law is that? I think he refers to the laws which Christ prescribed in texts such as Matthew 5, 6, and 7. A disciple of Christ, that is a Christian, is going to do what Christ said.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by jriccitelli » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:19 pm

Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" (Deuteronomy 8:3) "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me" My son, keep my words And treasure my commandments within you. 2 Keep my commandments and live, And my teaching as the apple of your eye" (Proverbs 7:1) "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? "A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?" says the LORD Almighty (Malachi 1:6) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven'

I don't think you recognize Gods Word is Gods Word, Gods Word has never changed, and His Word will endure forever. The Law of Christ is the Law of God, no difference. They are One and the same.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Cottrell on Law and Grace

Post by robbyyoung » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:25 am

Paidion wrote:As I see it, Jesus died to enable us to overcome wrongdoing (I have quoted the passages many times which affirm this), and that through Him, we who have submitted to Him are in the process of being saved from sin.
Paul wrote:And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6 ESV)
This seems to indicate salvation from sin as a process which shall be completed at the coming of Jesus.
God wants loving and righteous children, and those who are on the Narrow Path which leads to life, are acceptable to Him.
Hi Paidion,

Philippians 1:6 is addressing an "age ending" event, in which, The Saints at Philippi would witness and partake in. I could give numerous references in Paul's letter(s) to confirm this, but I won't, anyone can read them for themselves. Nevertheless, I agree with you concerning "the process of salvation", however, the 1st Century Believers experienced this specific event (completed work) at Yeshua's Parousia.

With that said, post 70 AD, we are no longer "being saved" from an age ending event, consisting of God's Wrath (Jewish and Roman War), and our sins. No, we are now focused exclusively on "being saved from our sins". Therefore, "The Process" of salvation is indeed a life's work of righteous living, in spite of the eschatological disagreements.

God Bless.

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