Who Were The Israelites?

Man, Sin, & Salvation
User avatar
Jason
Posts: 379
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by Jason » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:26 pm

Does this verse have any bearing on the discussion?

Galations 3:28
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.


This fixation on race seems very unhealthy, being that both ethnic Jews and Gentiles both make up the olive tree of Israel (Romans 11).

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by Paidion » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:31 pm

Image
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

RoyHobs
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by RoyHobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:22 am

Michelle wrote:I'm not sure who the 12 brothers of Abraham are.
Good catch Michelle! :)

Of course I meant "sons". I need a proof reader.

RoyHobs
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by RoyHobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:30 am

Jason wrote:Does this verse have any bearing on the discussion?
Yes. If you are interested in exploring this further -- http://www.hope-of-israel.org/gentile.htm

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by Paidion » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:27 pm

Roy, you wrote:
Michelle wrote: I'm not sure who the 12 brothers of Abraham are.
Good catch Michelle! :)

Of course I meant "sons". I need a proof reader.
Are you sure you meant the 12 sons of Abraham? As far as is recorded, Abraham, at age 86 has a son Ishmael from Hagar, Sarah's hand maiden. Then when he was 100 years old, his wife Sarah bore him a son, Isaac—when his body was "as good as dead" (Rom 4:19, Heb 11:12). But apparently God restored a lot of life to his body, because after Sarah died, Abraham married Keturah and had 6 more sons: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. However, that adds up to 8 sons, not 12.

I wonder if you meant the 12 sons of Abraham's grandson Jacob (whom God renamed "Israel")?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

RoyHobs
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by RoyHobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:32 pm

I have a precious female Boston Terrier who is in her last stage of heart failure. She is taking a diuretic to keep her body from fluid accumulation. The last few weeks have been very difficult sleep wise. She cares so much not to potty in the house, she quietly barks at the side of the bed every 2 hours all through the night. No doubt I am sleep deprived. I will be more careful in the future not to make grammatical errors here on this forum. I see how important it is. I'm very sorry.

RoyHobs
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by RoyHobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:58 pm

Paidion wrote:Are you sure you meant the 12 sons of Abraham?

Funny -- I remember that particular Morning I woke up with a jingle in my mind. It was a song we learned at family camp back when I was a youngster. It went something like, "Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had father Abraham, I am one, and so are you, and we will all go marching on......" Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa family camp. But I'm sure the song was not original to Calvary Chapel.

Anyway.........I had that song stuck in my mind when I wrote that. Funny how your brain works at times.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by Paidion » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:57 pm

I have heard that song, too. Only the version I heard was: "Father Abraham had seven sons... etc." But actually it is recorded that he had eight.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

RoyHobs
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by RoyHobs » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:17 pm

Great Podcast here -- https://archive.org/details/MichaelA.Ho ... Groupthink


Anyone who has read George Orwell's 1984, or just has a general understanding of "Orwellian Double Speak", this is a must listen. 32 minutes. Download and listen in the car or just listen straight off the site above.

Discussion is semi-related to the Post. Great listen. A must for all lovers of truth.

Truth is Love.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: Who Were The Israelites?

Post by Paidion » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:36 pm

I listened to as much of it as I could take (which was about 5 minutes). Hoffman is the one doing the double-speak. I can see why people who take that position are an offence to survivors of the holocaust (some of whom still live) and to their descendants.

I, myself, was alive at the end of World War II. There is hard evidence, including photos of the atrocities that were committed under Hitler. Many bodies were skin and bones through starvation. Although these atrocities were hidden to a great extent from the German people, some of them were well aware of what was going on. I have an older German friend who lived throughout his youth in Germany during the war. He knew. The churches of Germany were under the thumb of the Nazis at that time, and so they kept quiet. But Dietrich Bonhoeffer had "underground" churches who taught the truth. Bonhoeffer was put to death by the Nazis shortly before the liberation by the Allies.

It's ludicrous to suggest that all of this was invented. In some locations, Germans could smell the human flesh burning in the incinerators of the Nazis.
To say that 6 millions Jews were killed is not an exaggeration. I think it is an understatement.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

Post Reply

Return to “Anthropology, Hamartiology, Soteriology”