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Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

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Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby remade » Thu May 11, 2017 7:03 pm

A question that was asked to me recently, that I have yet to ask a Dispensationalist, is I was wondering what is the take for a pre-millenial, pre-trib rapture, with "God dealing with the unbelieving Jews separately," at the end of the world, after the rapture... in this mindset, my question is: will God extend fellowship to Gentile converts to Judaism?

In other words, suppose John Smith is either a non-ethnic Jew, and also a non-believer, or even a (backslidden) Christian, but at one point in his life converts to full-fledged Judaism (orthodox). Unfortunate for John Smith, the end of the world comes, the rapture happens and the tribulation begins.

I am not completely aware of dispensational claims to what God will do in order to "save" Jews in this time, but would John Smith be counted among the people whom God offers salvation to? Or because of John Smith's non-ethnic ties to Jews, will he not have that chance?

Thanks for any help.
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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby dwight92070 » Thu May 11, 2017 9:06 pm

I'm not understanding why you want to even know the answer to that question, unless you are considering agreeing with the dispensationalists, which is totally a man-made set of beliefs. If not, then why would you even care what they believe? It is not Biblical.
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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby remade » Thu May 11, 2017 11:24 pm

I am simply interested in how a believer in this system would answer said question.
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- II CORINTHIANS 5:21 ESV
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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby dwilkins » Fri May 12, 2017 3:05 am

My bet is that as long as the person is a full fledged convert they would say that the person would be treated like any other Jew. Of course, there might be some lack of access to being one of the 144,000 (though the whole concept would be hard to implement in literal terms in 2017). The problem would be pretty common by 2017 because very few people who call themselves Jews (if any) have exclusively Israelite blood in them. On a genetic level, there is virtually no such thing a pure Isrealite in 2017. Until the 1800's Judaism (in as much as it reflected a tradition from people who had some relationship with those scattered by the Romans, though the current religion is only barely associated with 2nd Temple Judaism) was considered a religion, not a race. They had multiple societies over the years that were made up of almost pure converts, but then they blended into the rest of the group as those nations broke down. It wasn't until the rise of the European nation state that they became a stand alone "nation", and by extension a "race". I doubt that it would be an issue.

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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby Paidion » Sun May 14, 2017 4:56 pm

Remade's question is not merely theoretical.

When I was 19 and 20, I befriended a young lady, with whom I walked around, and shared restaurant meals, etc. (I was not a "boyfriend" in the usual sense of the word). She appeared to be a devout Christian in every sense. At age 21, I went to Winnipeg and attended a Bible school in Winnipeg. A year later, the young lady also went to Winnipeg and attended that same Bible school. At the time, I was courting someone who later became my wife. The next thing I knew, the young lady to whom I referred had married a Jewish man, and had become a Jew religiously. Since then, I have visited her and her husband several times in their home in which I was also invited to dinner.

I have no idea how a dispensationalist would regard her status. I wonder how a Calvinist would regard it. He would probably say that if she ever was a true Christian, no matter what she did would change that.
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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby steve7150 » Mon May 15, 2017 8:59 am

A question that was asked to me recently, that I have yet to ask a Dispensationalist, is I was wondering what is the take for a pre-millenial, pre-trib rapture, with "God dealing with the unbelieving Jews separately," at the end of the world, after the rapture... in this mindset, my question is: will God extend fellowship to Gentile converts to Judaism?









Biblically speaking i think a Jew is someone who follows the Old Covenant and culturally speaking it is anyone who has a Jewish mother so Dispensationalists would probably use either definition IMO and accept them as full fledged Jews.
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Re: Dispensationalist Question: Gentile-Converts to Jews

Postby dwilkins » Mon May 15, 2017 2:13 pm

steve7150 wrote:A question that was asked to me recently, that I have yet to ask a Dispensationalist, is I was wondering what is the take for a pre-millenial, pre-trib rapture, with "God dealing with the unbelieving Jews separately," at the end of the world, after the rapture... in this mindset, my question is: will God extend fellowship to Gentile converts to Judaism?









Biblically speaking i think a Jew is someone who follows the Old Covenant and culturally speaking it is anyone who has a Jewish mother so Dispensationalists would probably use either definition IMO and accept them as full fledged Jews.


The definition of a Jew is not a clear matter, but I think it's important to point out a few things. Jews in the New Testament are those who claim to be under the Old Covenant and who were associated with the diaspora from the Babylonian invasion or the nation of Judea. It did not include the members of the Northern Kingdom dispersed by the Assyrians, though these people are entitled to return to the land and are explicitly part of the 144,000 prophecy. It is common in Christian writings for you to see some fudging of this, so, for instance, David or Solomon would be referred to as Jews. They were not. They were Israelites, or Hebrews, but not Jews. This makes the issue of prophetic writing and the modern state of Israel a very difficult issue. Do those with some DNA claim to the tribe of Zebulun have a right to return from Kurdistan or Iran to the state of Israel? Can they do so without converting to Judaism, since most Jews in Israel are atheists?

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