Futurist application of Matthew 24 to the end times

End Times
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Paidion
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Re: Futurist application of Matthew 24 to the end times

Post by Paidion » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:57 pm

Dizerner wrote:The Didache appears to be a very old Christian document that interprets end time passages as yet to be fulfilled:
Right, Dizerner. Several early Christian writers saw Antichrist as coming at a time future to themselves.
Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.) wrote the following in Against Heresies Book 5, Ch. XXVIII:
For when he (Antichrist) is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy,
and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the
temple of God, so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ; wherefore also shall he deservedly
“be cast into the lake of fire:” [this will happen according to divine appointment], God by His
prescience foreseeing all this, and at the proper time sending such a man, “that they may believe a
lie, that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but consented to unrighteousness;”
whose coming John has thus described in the Apocalypse: “And the beast which I had seen was
like unto a leopard, and his feet as of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion; and the dragon
conferred his own power upon him, and his throne, and great might. And one of his heads was as
it were slain unto death; and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wondered after the
beast. And they worshipped the dragon because he gave power to the beast; and they worshipped
the beast, saying, Who is like unto this beast, and who is able to make war with him? And there
was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemy and power was given to him
during forty and two months. And he opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme
His name and His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. And power was given him over every
tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation. And all who dwell upon the earth worshipped him, [every
one] whose name was not written in the book of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Of course, full preterists have no problem with this. Supposedly, Nero was the antichrist and the rapture occurred in 70 A.D. and all the true Christians were removed from the earth. The religious people who were "left behind" were not true Christians, nor their immediate descendants. No one noticed that Nero was the Antichrist or the disappearance of the saints in the rapture, and so for the next few centuries, men like Irenaeus mistakenly thought the antichrist to be future to their time.
Paidion

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dwilkins
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Re: Futurist application of Matthew 24 to the end times

Post by dwilkins » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:37 am

The dating of the Didache is impossible to prove. But, there is no particular reason to have it after 70AD. I'd argue that since it claims to represent what the Apostles were teaching in the first century that it would be most authoritative if it was written when they were alive, which implies an early date.

And, to be fair, most Full Preterists don't think there was a literal rapture in 70AD. Those in Ed Stevens' camp do, but most look at rapture related passages differently.

Doug

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Re: Futurist application of Matthew 24 to the end times

Post by Paidion » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:09 pm

Doug wrote:And, to be fair, most Full Preterists don't think there was a literal rapture in 70AD. Those in Ed Stevens' camp do, but most look at rapture related passages differently.
Thank you for pointing that out, Doug. I don't want to be unfair to Full Preterists. I was under the false impression that most of them do believe in a literal rapture in 70 A.D., and I appreciate your pointing out the reality of the matter.
You wrote:The dating of the Didache is impossible to prove.
Yes, that seems to be correct. Experts disagree as to the date.
But, there is no particular reason to have it after 70AD.

I am not informed enough to be able to say whether or not there is such a reason.
I'd argue that since it claims to represent what the Apostles were teaching in the first century that it would be most authoritative if it was written when they were alive, which implies an early date.
From my point of view, even if the first apostles were alive when it was written, the writer's description of the coming of Christ would not apply to the events of 70 A.D. The coming of Christ (in which "every eye shall see Him" and which will be as obvious to all as the lighting (of the sun) which shines from the east to the west) did not occur in 70 A.D. Nor did the resurrection of the dead take place at that time.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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