Predestination

[dwilkins]

Normally, this topic would seem to fit under soteriology or at least Calvinism, but I'm suspicious of that entire approach. It seem to me that of the uses of proorizo in scripture are very tightly organized around martyrdom. Has anyone ever looked into that or does anyone know a theologian who has approached it from that point of view?

Doug

[dwilkins]

I was previously short on time so didn't add too much detail to this thread. In this post I'll make my basic argument. The idea of predestination has been integrated into a number of complex and important doctrines in Protestant soteriology. I'm suspicious of this. It's the habit of the Reformers to make just about everything about soteriology, so I suppose I'm not shocked. But, I think they may have assigned this term to the wrong category. It seems to me instead to be talking specifically about the people who were predestined to be martyred according to the plan of God. If so, there is no such crisis as predestination in soteriology and a great deal of Reformed dogma (interestingly, the parts that seem to make the least sense) can be dismantled.

Below are all of the uses of the derivatives of proorizo, or predestined, in the New Testament:

Rom_8:29-30 (3)
Eph_1:5, Eph_1:11
Act_4:28
Act_4:28 (2)
1Co_2:7

The reference in 1st Cor. and Acts have to do with the crucifixion of Christ and the fact that it was predestined. I'd argue that he was the penultimate martyr and that all other acts of Christian martyrdom follow his lead.

This leaves us with two references in one discourse in Ephesians and three references in one discourse in Romans. We'll take Ephesians first. I apologize for the length, but the whole chapter is important. I've highlighted the references to "us", "our", "we", and "you" because I think they are critical to the understanding of the passage:

Ephesians 1:1-23 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

I assume that the spiritual mechanics of salvation through faith and blessings in the high places are universal to all Christians. So, I'm not proposing that everything that Paul says about "we" only applies to himself and the other Apostles or leaders. But, it does seem that there is a drastic transition in v. 13 to "you", bringing into question exactly how much of vs. 1-12 applies to "you". When you keep in mind that other prophets such as Jeremiah and David clearly saw themselves as singled out for their mission before birth, I think Paul's claim in Gal 1:15-16 is significant.

Galatians 1:15-17 (ESV)
15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born , and who called me by his grace,
16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

and then,

Acts 9:13-16 (ESV)
13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name."

If this dynamic of being called out before birth applied to everyone why would only certain Biblical authors (the important ones, no less) claim it for themselves? Is there anywhere in scripture that says this singling out is true of every human being?

It seems to me that in Paul's conversion it is predicted that he is to suffer. Paul claims that he was uniquely singled out from before birth for his mission. He also claims in Ephesians 1 that "we" were predestined to glorify God according to his will in language very similar to that associated with Jesus' predestination to die as a martyr.

[dwilkins]

In considering the Romans passage, take a look carefully at the context. In this discourse, the background is persecution and martyrdom.

Romans 8:12-39 (ESV)
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"
16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.


29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The only other passage that uses predestination is soaked in martyrdom language. It starts by promising that people will be heirs of the promises of God as long as we suffer with Christ. In vs. 29-30 we see a past tense passage describing people who were foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. The implication from the passage is that these people have been martyred. v.30 claims that those who were predestined had already gone through calling, justification, and glorification. Glorification, in most theology, is reserved for a time after death, so this implies that these people, in the past tense, have already died. The passage then continues on in vs. 35-36 and 38 to talk explicitly about martyrdom.

In Ephesians, one of two passages where predestination is used for anyone other than Christ, we see a person who was predestined to suffer martyrdom. In Romans, we see a long passage about promises made to people who were being martyred. The ones who were foreknown and predestined have already been glorified as of the date of the writing of Romans. Now, look at what I think is a parallel idea shown in Revelation:

Revelation 6:11 (ESV)
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

In this passage there is the only passage I'm aware of in the New Testament where a specific number of people is explicitly said to be “predestined” to a fate. An exception might be the 144,000 from this same book, though this assumes it is an exception at all. My point is that the idea of a predestined number or group of people is more closely associated with martyrdom than it is soteriology. Those who were martyred were saved, so there is obviously some overlap, but I suspect that the close proximity of these concepts in these passages has cause significant confusion.

Doug

[paulespino]

Hi Doug,

Are you trying to point out that the the doctrine of limited atonement is an error because those who made the doctrine associated the word "predestined" to salvation rather than to martyrdom?

[Homer]

Doug,

Very Interesting!

[dwilkins]

Hi Doug,

Are you trying to point out that the the doctrine of limited atonement is an error because those who made the doctrine associated the word "predestined" to salvation rather than to martyrdom?

I didn't have limited atonement in mind when I started thinking of the topic this way, but if what I wrote above is correct it would have wide ranging implications in theology. I started down this road when I tried to think of why (other than prolepsis) Paul's promises to believers were in the past tense. They should have been in the future tense. Then, I got to thinking that the only group predestined to be a certain size that I was aware of was the martyrs in Revelation (again, with the possible exception of the 144,000, assuming they are in fact a separate group). Then, I read Ephesians 1 slowly a couple of times and noticed the "we" to "you" switch and that this would open up the possibility that not every single thing about "we" was necessarily true about "you". I also noticed that the Ephesians material from my position would rejuvenate the authority and uniqueness of Apostles instead of flattening them out into essentially roadies for Christ, as is a typically American approach. If I'm right it would indeed change how we look at atonement, but it would also affect everything in lapserianism, various free will arguments, anthropology as it relates to compatibilist human decision making, and the list goes on.

Doug

[Paidion]

In our day we think of being "predestined" as tantamount to "fated".

He predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. (Eph 1:5 ESV)

Sadly, there are TWO words in this sentence which require a more accurate translation. The sentence would be better translated as:

He pre-appointed us for sonshship (or "placing as sons") through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

[Homer]

Doug,

Here is something else that you may not have noticed in Ephesians that favors your idea:

Ephesians 1:1-13, (NASB)

1. Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints who are [c]at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6. to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8. which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9. He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10. with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11. also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12. to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 3:1-6

3. For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2. if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3. that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5. which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6. to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

In 1:9 the mystery was revealed to "us" and in 3:3-6 Paul wrote that the "us" was himself, the apostles, and prophets and then he defines the mystery.

[paulespino]

Hi Doug,

I think that being a martyr is a manifestation of a person's faith.

Therefore those who are predestine including those mentioned
In the Revelation are the faithful followers of Christ .

Being a martyr is just one of the many manifestation of a person's faith.