Confession

End Times
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Paidion
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Re: Confession

Post by Paidion » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:29 pm

Paidion ... are you sure Mauro is a (partial) preterist?
I am sure that he is a preterest of some stripe.
The pretersts certainly claim him.
You may want to check out Mauro's book at this preterist website:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1 ... weeks.html
Paidion

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canada
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Re: Confession

Post by canada » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:01 pm

I have Mauro's "The Seventy Weeks And The Great Tribulation".

I was of the impression he was an historicist ... I have been wrong before!

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Paidion
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Re: Confession

Post by Paidion » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:04 pm

I have been wrong before!
So have I! In rereading my brief post above, I just realized that I spelled "preterist" in three different ways!
Paidion

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canada
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Re: Confession

Post by canada » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:15 pm

Came across the following comment regarding one of his books ... "Gospel Of The Kingdom" ... an excellent book by Philip Mauro, explaining what is the kingdom of God and exposing the error of dispensationalism. Mauro's book is provided on a preterist web site. There is some question regarding the accuracy of the preterist view. Mauro's book, however, does not advocate the preterist interpretation of prophecy. Mauro's book is more of a critique of dispensationalism. His book could easily support the historicist view.

Dont know who made this statement, but that was my understanding of Mauro also.

I have a question for you Paidion ... if a person believes Daniel 9:27 is about Jesus Christ are you of the impression that that makes him some form of preterist?

The reason I ask is because I was first a futurist for ten years before becoming an historicist, and when a futurist I believed that Dan 9:27 was about Jesus, who "in the midst of the week" ie after 3 1/2 years of His ministry caused the (need) for the sacrifice and oblation to cease ... ...

I hold the same belief now as an historicist.

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Paidion
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Re: Confession

Post by Paidion » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:42 am

Hi Canada. I also have read Gospel of the Kingdom by Mauro, and agree that it is an excellent book. The Hope of Israel is also excellent. After having read both books, I found nothing in them to suggest that Mauro was a preterist.

Until I looked into Mauro's book at the preterist website whose link I posted on this thread, I didn't know that he was one.

My answer to your question is "no." I do not think that a person's eschatology can be assessed by examining his interpretation of Daniel 9:27.

I admit I haven't read the above book thoroughly, but perhaps I will do so. Notwithstanding consider the following paragraph:
Philip Mauro wrote:This "great tribulation" is commonly in our day assigned to the future; and this view was held by the present writer himself until he made a personal study of the question. Our observations on this point, however, belong to the second division of our subject, the Lord's Prophecy on Mt. Olivet (#Mt 24), so we will only say at present that so conclusive to our mind is the proof that the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21 was the then approaching siege of Jerusalem, that we are bound to believe that competent teachers who relegate it to the future have never examined and weighed the evidence.
Second-century Christians such as Irenæus, believed that the great tribulation was future to their day, and they lived long after 70 A.D. The belief that most or all of Matthew 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is the very essence of preterism, is it not?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Confession

Post by robbyyoung » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Paidion wrote:
Philip Mauro wrote:This "great tribulation" is commonly in our day assigned to the future; and this view was held by the present writer himself until he made a personal study of the question. Our observations on this point, however, belong to the second division of our subject, the Lord's Prophecy on Mt. Olivet (#Mt 24), so we will only say at present that so conclusive to our mind is the proof that the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21 was the then approaching siege of Jerusalem, that we are bound to believe that competent teachers who relegate it to the future have never examined and weighed the evidence.
Second-century Christians such as Irenæus, believed that the great tribulation was future to their day, and they lived long after 70 A.D. The belief that most or all of Matthew 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is the very essence of preterism, is it not?
Hi Paidion,

Philip Mauro said, "...competent teachers who relegate it to the future have never examined and weighed the evidence." Well, I believe they did examine the evidence and then absolutely refused to believe it was over. Therefore, clever alternatives were crafted to keep the spirit of an Old Covenant Kingdom (wooden literalism) alive and set in the future. You see, the evidence is so overwhelming that to deny fulfillment, will put at risk the inspiration of The Holy Spirit, who clearly taught that generation will not pass until fulfillment came to fruition. Therefore, clever alternatives were INVENTED.

It really is quite simple. These are ancient eyewitness accounts, personal letters to real people telling their story. I guarantee it would be impossible to read the N.T., if you role play as the audience receiving these letters and epistles, to divert it's prophetic messages to another time, people and place. Absolutely impossible! Be the Thessalonians, Ephesians, Corinthians, Romans, Diaspora, etc... 100% impossible!

Preterists are not being unreasonable. However, to read an ancient account or testimony, if you will, regarding events said to affect the people of the time, and then, draft clever ways to nullify that message and assign it to people 100, 500, 1000, 1500, or how about 2000 years and counting to the future; and be DEAD WRONG, FALSE TEACHERS/PROPHETS TO BOOT, and contend they are the ones who are being reasonable is just crazy???? Not a chance.

Irregardless of the evidence to the timing of prophecy being fulfilled in the 1st Century, it is still rejected for ignorance of "The How" question. Wooden literalism and errant expectation on the nature of fulfillment is what kept the unbelieving Jews from accepting Messiah. This same error exist regarding prophecies regarding the end of the age.

How prophecy was fulfilled, may never be accurately solved, however, believing its timing - when God said it will happen - shouldn't be up for question.

God Bless.

canada
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Re: Confession

Post by canada » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:47 pm

Paidion ... you said in part ... "The belief that most or all of Matthew 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is the very essence of preterism, is it not?"

Yes ... it is the essence of full preterism (heretical in my opinion) ... but "half" of Christianity is partial preterist.

The other "half" of Christianity is futurist ... as an historicist I am feeling very lonely in my belief regarding the papacy and the religion of Rome.

Perhaps when God finally destroys that great city "Mystery Babylon" we will have a better insight into our understanding of the "last days".

It is my understanding that partial preterists believe that city to be Jerusalem City (some in the past and some yet still in the future) whereas the historicist believes it to be the literal, future destruction of Vatican City, as an ever burning witness to the world.

When I read the account of its destruction in Revelation, I am reminded that Vatican City is built upon ... volcanic rock ... which seems to follow Revelation's account of that future destruction.

When witnessing to non believers I suggest they watch Vatican City very closely.

steve7150
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Re: Confession

Post by steve7150 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:50 pm

as an historicist I am feeling very lonely in my belief regarding the papacy and the religion of Rome.












I'm an Historicist too and i think the Papacy is the beast of Rev 13 but in today's world the Papacy seems like a toothless tiger, wouldn't you say? Ever consider there may be different beasts at different times?

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backwoodsman
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Re: Confession

Post by backwoodsman » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:00 pm

canada wrote:When witnessing to non believers I suggest they watch Vatican City very closely.
That seems very unwise, unless you're trying to make them disciples of historicism, rather than of Jesus.

canada
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Re: Confession

Post by canada » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:42 pm

Hello Steve7150 ... good to hear from a brother historicist.

At one time it was "the" Protestant position but today almost forgotten.

You note that the papacy seems like a toothless tiger today.
Yes, compared to it's dominance in the past, but I think because of this viewed weakness, that furthers the deception.

We are warned that if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived.
No doubt many today are thoroughly deceived by it's mighty "miracles signs and wonders" and this is not just confined to the followers of the Church of Rome.

I will pm you with a question.

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