Where did demons come from?

[mikew]

demons are the wandering spirits of the dead Nephil'im

Ken, when I was reading the Church Fathers back in the mid-90's I'm pretty sure I remember more than one of them holding this belief. It's been so long since I read it that I don't want to say for sure. Do you happen to know....or even better, have any quotes?

I found their belief so intriguing (especially since I'd never heard it before) I actually took notes, but that was before I had a computer and I don't know where I put them.

As I recall, some of them (Church Fathers) thought the existence of the Nephil'im is where the mythology of the Greek gods likely originated. My memory could be faulty though.

Sorry. On this topic I'm not sure what view makes sense. I just had to mention about the possible source of Greek Mythology, as being ancestor worship with a glofication of Cain.

http://www.theparthenoncode.com/

I've heard interviews with the author several times and the idea is very interesting. But I haven't explored his writing in any depth.

One thing I have noticed though about demons (unclean spirits) is that the seem to be treated differently from Satan. Satan was a creature in the garden (or with access to the garden) and then in Rev 20, Satan alone is bound up, not any demons.

[TK]

Ken-

thanks for that fascinating post.

on the old forum, someone referenced a website that had articles pretty much saying what your post said. I cant remember the website, nor can have I looked for the specific old thread, but it was very intriguing.

TK

P.S. Your explanation regarding the mysterious passage about women keeping their heads covered "because of the angels" is truly interesting. that passage has always bugged me; if what you are saying is true then it makes excellent sense.

[TK]

I was listening to Steve's lectures on 1st John and he went off on a tangent about demons in the 5th or 6th one and this again brought the question to my mind: " what exactly ARE demons?" i was going to ask the question then I re-found this topic.

this thread has laid dormant for a while but i would like to re-visit it because I think it is interesting.

the idea of demons being "fallen angels" never really set right with me, primarily because I always envision demons as sniveling creatures that sort of look like gremlins (from the gremlins movie). Perhaps my thinking has also been influenced by Frank Peretti's books "Piercing the Darkness" and "This Present Darkness." of course there is nothing to say that fallen angels werent "cursed" to ugliness but that would be speculation. the accounts of people who have seen demons usually describe something terrible. Steve told a story about the girl in his band who disappeared between sets and they found her later near the woods somewhat in shock because she had some sort of confrontation with a demonic manifestation.

I'm not trying to cultivate an unhealthy interest in the subject (there is plenty out there that is attempting to do this) but i do think this is an area that a lot of Christians simply take for granted that they know what demons are, or haven't really thought about it.

TK

[darinhouston]

Is it possible that angels are likewise terrifying but for the love and comfort they provide when manifested ? "fear not, etc." Even angels seem to be something less than "angelic" in the bible. Add to that a demonic purpose, and (like people who have an evil heart), I suspect it could manifest in an increased terrific expression/appearance.

[TK]

good point, Darin. 4 faced creatures with 6 wings studded with eyes might be a tad frightening. if of course that is a literal and not a symbolic description.

TK

[darinhouston]

true enough, but then again folks are often "sore afraid" or the like and are warned not to be afraid, etc. so literal or not, there must be something scary about them.

[Jason]

true enough, but then again folks are often "sore afraid" or the like and are warned not to be afraid, etc. so literal or not, there must be something scary about them.

Angels are also said to wear dazzling white robes at times also. The common response throughout scripture is that when an angel appears, the person to whom they are revealed almost always falls down in worship. Perhaps those who were scared ("fear not..") were startled not because of a horrid apearance but because they were not expecting to see anyone. My wife scared me half to death the other day because she appeared (not literally) behind me when I wasn't expecting it. She could've said, "Fear not, it is I... you wife."

[TK]

that makes me wonder if the "fear" the bible mentions when people meet angels was a "good" or a "bad" fear.

there are just a lot of unanswered or unanswerable questions about demons. are they all active? why do they have to be evil? can they choose not to be? why dont they demonize everybody, particularly non-christians- or do they in one way or another?

Personally, I have had only one experience when I knew for a fact that demons were around. My wife and I went to to a local "Renaissance Faire" where you could see jousting and eat Turkey legs and do and see other medieval type stuff. We had never been to one before, but it was always in our area for several weekends during the summer so we decided to go. It was held at an old campground and a lot of it was in the woods (a road winded through the woods). well, when we got there we quickly didnt feel exactly right, even standing in line to get in. once inside, it was obvious that this renaissance faire was little more than a place where new ager types could sell their new age-y type goods- you know, amulets, incense, etc etc. A very strong sense of foreboding and oppression came over both of us and we were out of there very soon after arriving. It was pretty scary.

TK

[Nimix]

I think spiritual warfare is interesting; however I do not know how relevant it is for Christians. Nonetheless I find myself contemplating it often. I find the references to the nephilim interesting, I would like to do more research and give more thought to that. Micah wrote earlier....

"Is there any other options? Can it be safe to conclude the former over the latter since God can't be the creator of sin?" -Micah

Which ties into what I have considered. Can sin be the bi-product of free choice, which God has bestowed upon us? If then, evil is the bi-product of free choice, can we say godliness is the opposite of evil. And that evilness is furthering yourself from God. If angels did indeed fall, one can then conclude that angels have free will or at least the choice of staying or leaving.

Could it be then, that angels furthering themselves from God over such a long period of time, may distort them into such perverse creatures. Maybe time has nothing to do with it, possibly when an angel falls they are then so far from God they become evil instantly. This of course, is all conjecture.

TK wrote about personal experience. There has been two times in my life where I have felt like something... out of the ordinary has happened. I don't want to sound like some wacko or crazy but I would be interested to find someone who might of had similar experiences or can explain this to me as something normal.

I was laying on the couch with my now x-girlfriend. My head was on one end of the couch and hers on the other. We were talking in the dark, and having a normal conversation. The next thing that happened is hard to explain with words. Instantly I felt this... something like intense hatred, emanating from the doorway. Its very hard to explain; how can you feel hatred emanating from something else? In the same moment I was paralyzed with fear. The greatest fear I have ever felt in my life. If I could move I would have dove out of the window, or screamed -like- I was covered in a thousand spiders. (I'm arachnophobic) After what seemed like eternity but was probably seconds I had a waking dream, and whatever it was had left after. As well as the (what I can only describe as) hatred and my paralyzing fear.

I would blow this off as some crazy thing but I turned to my x girlfriend and asked her if anything just happened. She said she was scared. I asked her if it was coming from anywhere and she pointed towards the doorway.

-Michael

[RickC]

I've been reading some of Michael Heiser's stuff for a few years.

I saw this thread a couple days ago and went on a "nephilim" google search and found:
http://tinyurl.com/yc4tknk
(don't let the oddball "AOD" format throw you off, some interesting stuff here)
I watched/listened to it once, and am going to again now.
Quite a lot of information.
I didn't digest it on 'take one'.

Also of interest might be:
http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/
(by Michael Heiser)