Is satan dumb?

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TK
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Is satan dumb?

Post by TK » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:57 am

This topic came up in a recent conversation.

I understand that satan isn't REALLY dumb- he is wily and all.

But he seems to make some dumb moves.

For example, if he was behind the crucifixion, and it seems that he was, did he really think that would result in a victory for him?

From a strategy standpoint, he also seems shortsighted. For example, take the Olivet discourse. If satan would have worked to thwart those prophecies, instead of fulfilling them, he could have discredited Jesus.

Now I realize that brings to question whether the prophecies COULD have been thwarted at all, but hopefully you catch my drift.

On the other hand, he has done a pretty good job of getting the Church and the world into the state it is currently in.

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backwoodsman
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by backwoodsman » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:27 am

It seems he's an excellent illustration of the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

dizerner

Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by dizerner » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:02 pm

the dumbest angel is probably smarter than the smartest man? what kind of a question is this :roll:

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TK
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by TK » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:10 pm

It's a rhetorical question.

But my point is that satan could have discredited scripture by not playing into the hands of the prophecies that involved him, but he never seems to have done so.

Why did he think that getting Jesus crucified was a goal that would further his cause? Was he really THAT unwise?

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jarrod
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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by jarrod » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:32 pm



My first thought would be that it was God's plan to crush Jesus and lead him to the crucifixion through the hardening of the hearts of those in Israel (much like Pharaoh). Satan seemed to take his shot at spoiling God's efforts by tempting Jesus three times?

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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by Paidion » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:10 pm

Jarrod wrote:
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. (NKJV)
My first thought would be that it was God's plan to crush Jesus and lead him to the crucifixion through the hardening of the hearts of those in Israel (much like Pharaoh). Satan seemed to take his shot at spoiling God's efforts by tempting Jesus three times?
Well, I disbelieve that it was God's plan to crush Jesus and lead him to the crucifixion by any means. It was His enemies that put Him to death.

Isaiah 53:10 and the first part of verse 11 reads quite differently in the Septuagint, the translation which the New Testament writers used. Indeed, it seems to say the opposite:
The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed. The Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul...
Paidion

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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by jarrod » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:39 pm

Just curious-- what do believe God's plan was for Jesus, knowing that He gave His only son because He loved the world in order to reconcile us? Did you think He expected something different than the crucifixion?
Paidion wrote:Well, I disbelieve that it was God's plan to crush Jesus and lead him to the crucifixion by any means. It was His enemies that put Him to death.

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Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by Paidion » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:07 pm

I think God USED the death of Jesus which was brought about by evil men, to deliver man from sin, just as He often brings good out of evil. I don't think He pre-planned His death.

Don't ask me how that works. It seems to be just as difficult to explain how Jesus' death brought about deliverance no matter what one's soteriological view. If Jesus hadn't been put to death, I am sure that God would have found a way to deliver people from sin, perhaps even a different way through Jesus. Even as it is, it is written that we shall be saved by His LIFE. (Rom 5:10). As for the Rev 13:8 where in the NKJV it speaks of the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world," this may not be a correct translation. The New American Standard Bible translated the verse thusly:
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
The RSV and the ESV translate it similarly.

I think the worst view, a view that denigrates God's character, is the penal substitutionary view whose proponents declare that God was satisfied by punishing His Son in place of sinners, so that sinners wouldn't have to be punished. Can you imagine an earthly father who would obtain satisfaction from punishing one of his innocent children instead of the one who committed evil acts?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by dizerner » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:30 am

I'm not sure i can even imagine an earthly father that would take upon himself the punishment his son deserved, but what a love that would be

dizerner

Re: Is satan dumb?

Post by dizerner » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:58 am

TK wrote:It's a rhetorical question.

But my point is that satan could have discredited scripture by not playing into the hands of the prophecies that involved him, but he never seems to have done so.

Why did he think that getting Jesus crucified was a goal that would further his cause? Was he really THAT unwise?
I'm just wondering where you got the idea that Satan thought the crucifixion of Jesus would further his cause or that Satan was the one that somehow engineered it. Scripture is clear that it was God's idea and plan. Satan did offer Christ another way to achieve the goal, both in the wilderness temptations, and tried one last time through Peter to get him to bail out. I think some Word of Faith teaching has gone around that God somehow "tricked" the devil into killing Jesus. I'm not sure where that originated. It's an interesting thought, and certainly the most brilliant and creative mind God created could easily be tricked by God himself, so we would hardly fault anyone for being outplayed or outsmarted by an infinite Creator. Satan is definitely spoken of as one of God's most impressive archangels. We'd have to imagine sin would make a being insane in some regards—attempting to rebel against the infinite. We'd also have to imagine that taking so many to hell with him, he could by no means be viewed as a dunce.

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