Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

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DeGraff
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Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by DeGraff » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:12 pm

As a follower of Christ for 40 years, I've always heard idolatry defined "as anything that competes with your love for God".

The first two commandments are 1) to "Have no other gods before Me", and 2) to not make any craven images, or idols, images of other gods. Throughout the Old Testament, going after idols was the perpetual downfall of Israel. It was always, literally, going after the gods of other nations.

I don't disagree that single-minded devotion and loyalty to Jesus and his kingdom are summed up with "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength". But saying that anything one becomes enamored with is an idol seems to be just one more way western Christianity marginalized the spiritual warfare view.... which is why I am posting under this category.

Examples given for Idolatry tend to include material possessions, career, etc. What if a Hebrew around 1000BC were told, "I know you saved for years to buy that chariot, but now that you have it be careful as it might become an idol!". He would think you were nuts... it's not an idol. He knows what an idol is. He might have been guilty of the sin coveting in the process of acquiring the chariot, but he doesn't deserve capital punishment for worshipping an idol as the law required.

By the way, the closest thing I can think of in modern America to an idol is (gulp) pledging allegiance to the flag. It is a symbol of a larger abstract entity that one is placing their hope and commitment to, possibly in a more meaningful way to the one saluting it than their religious faith. It also requires ritual handling.

One can say I'm wrangling with semantics. But if words don't have real definitions, then someone polishing his truck is spiritually equal to a Hindu worshipping his pantheon of deities.

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Homer
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by Homer » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:36 pm

DeGraff,

I'm very sympathetic to your view

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morbo3000
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:45 pm

@Degraff, I agree.
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DeGraff
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by DeGraff » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:42 pm

At some point we combined the first 2 commandments into 1 commandment:
1 = No gods before me. I'm your God.
2 = No making images of things in heaven or on earth... no idols.
1+2 = Anything you place before Me is an idol. It doesn't have to be a god. It doesn't even have to be a thing.

Anyone familiar with Greg Boyd's "God At War" or Michael Heiser's "The Unseen Realm" will know why this seems like an important distinction to me. The only verse I can imagine someone quoting to defend the modern take on idolatry is 1 John 5:21, when John says "Little children, keep yourselves from idols". Just to show how spiritually charged idolatry is, here is the verse in context:
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

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TK
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by TK » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:05 pm

Col. 3:5-6: Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience...

According to this verse coveting is idolatry (it may be referring to the other things as well but it is at least talking about coveting.

So it seems in NT at least idolatry is more than bowing down to graven images.

DeGraff
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by DeGraff » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:36 pm

Thanks for finding that one TK. My goal isn't to argue but to question in order to find out what is true. So much of what I've carried around has turned out to be baggage of one kind or another.

I've been taught elsewhere that the NASB has the most accurate verb tense. Here is how it translates Col. 3:5:
"Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry."

This reminds me of the verse where it says "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft". Is rebellion witchcraft? Is greed idolatry? Actually, I'm not sure if Paul is picking on just covetousness there, or if he is calling "all-of-the-above" idolatry.

We definitely need to guard our hearts.

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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:14 pm

I believe you are right that the evangelical way of describing idolatry takes the bite of spiritual warfare. It reduces reality to the material, and doesn't recognize the deities that lie behind them, whether they are false gods, or demons, or whatever.

Jungian psychology (bear with me) draws parallels between human conditions and the gods of mythology and folk tales. Loki = mischief. Thor = power. This is not really different than the henotheism of Israel's times, where crops, war and fertility were symbolized by gods. Humans fixated their insecurities with YHWH onto instant-fix distortions of Him. The golden calf is a perfect example. The prophets spoke out against this, calling them to abandon their distortions of God, and return to worship Him and Him only.

This metaphor might help explain America's hyper-sexuality. Mis-understanding the erotic in God (bear with me again) leads to pathologies that result in worship of a false quick-fix, instant-gratification erotic god. Venus is our erotic goddess. TV shows, and advertising capitalize on the sexual beauty she represents. They turn the erotic into lust, and capitalize on it. The images themselves may not be gods. But perhaps serving them, viewing pornography for example, is an act of worshipping Venus.
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DeGraff
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by DeGraff » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:59 am

You just took this where I knew it would lead, but I didn't know how to get there. How could Israel's defining sin be one we are only able to commit in an "amounts-to-sorta-kinda" way.

For several years now, every superbowl halftime or music awards show has included a performance featuring the newest starlet defiling herself and everyone watching. Think back to Madonna and up through Miley Cyrus. These almost always involve religious/cultic imagery, or drop to new lows sexually. The next day it's a bigger story than the show or event it was part of. Conspiracy types are all over this and have gone overboard looking for symbolism.

In addition to the gods you mentioned, I have to include Mars/Ares. Think of the endless hours spent in first-person shooting games. Are video games evil? When someone sacrifices days of their life in fantasy violence I have to wonder what is going on behind it.

Back to my original thoughts: I have found the common definition of idolatry weak because anything could be an idol, and it bears no resemblance to what the people the scripture was written to would understand. But show them a superbowl halftime show... now that's familiar.

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jaydam
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by jaydam » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:49 am

I've always understood idolatry to relate to what you worship.

Worship coming from the words worthy-ship, or to accord something a "position of worth."

In superstitious culture, this position could be accorded to a figure clearly recognized as an idol in the Old Testament understanding.

In a scientific and reasoning society, this could relate to money, material goods, knowledge, or anything else people within that context would place in a position of worth.

I think the difficulty you are running into comes from translating the images of a different culture into ours.

Just because our idols don't match what idols were within an agrarian, superstitious, eastern society, does not mean we in the west do not have idols.

Social context changes what idols look like.

I understand idolatry as it crosses cultures to mean what you attribute worthiness to. Be it a carved figurine or a large bank account or sexuality, or anything else which is placed within one's life as holding incorrect value.


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DeGraff
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Re: Being clear on what idolatry is and is not

Post by DeGraff » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:19 pm

1 Corinthians 10 seems to be a good place for answers here. It starts off recapping the Exodus and proceeds to connect things:

"Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.” We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry." (1 Cor 10:7-14)

Idolatry bookends this passage and every mistake Israel made in the wilderness seems to be connected to it. Interesting to note that they were fleeing Egypt where Yahweh humiliated their gods, and heading for Canaan, a land infested with even more gods to defeat. The passage goes on to warn about not eating meat sacrificed to idols, because some among them have weak consciences and could be caused to stumble.

So I have to modify my position a bit. Not walking in relationship and obedience to God puts you in a kind of idolatry minefield. I still find the original definition I posted a materialistic cliché, and lacking any real teeth when you take away the supernatural dimension.

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