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Ghosts

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:06 pm
by remade
Thankfully I can say that I do not think I have ever experienced a demonic attack or been involved in paranormal activity. Like the average American (I think), I just have a semi-interest in ghost stories and what-not.

I do enjoy "My Ghost Stories" on the bio. channel. (They are easy to find via google and youtube).

One particular story, and I don't know if it was from my ghost story, or some other paranormal documentary, has stuck in my mind formulating a part of my Christian paradigm. One story of a haunted theater basement is like many "ghostly encounters" I've heard, and that is, viewers claim to see the ghost of deceased father and son experiencing the last moments of their lives quite often. I don't remember the theater or story, but basically an old worker in - I think anywhere from the 1920s - 40s - was in a basement doing something, while his son was chasing a bouncy ball. The bouncy ball went under an elevator while the elevator was up, and I think either the father tried to save him being compressed by the elevator as well, or maybe the father lost his son, and in guilt and sorrow, the father took his own life soon thereafter. The ghostly encounter states that there are apparitions of this father and son in that same area quite often. They (the ghostly father and son) seem to be unaware of reality, and are simply reliving their last moments over and over and over.

I have often thought that with hell, being very hard to nail down some solid theological conclusions from the Bible (without church tradition) - what if a nonbeliever's suffering might entail reliving the last moments of their lives over and over? That would not explain, however, the fact that living humanity on earth would be able to view it?

Just some thoughts to shoot around.

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:30 pm
by Paidion
When I was 21 years old (57 years ago) I attended Winnipeg Bible Institute, located at the time in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The students who boarded at the school were placed in the rooms of an old building that served as a dormitory.

The fellows in the room next to ours, said they were frequently wakened by furniture that seemed to move around on its own. The fellows who occupied that room asked some questions, and as it turned out, seances had been held in that room some years prior to its use as a dorm for Bible school students.

Could it be that demons, impersonating people who had died, were still active in that room?

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:30 pm
by remade
Possibly. It seems that the devil and those who work for him -- their greatest desire is to win people from God. IF the idea of a different afterlife for people contrary to the Scriptures is presented to humanity, humanity may begin to question God's Word? I don't know.

I think that seeking demonic activity out and all that goes with it, opens oneself up to those things. CS Lewis wrote:
“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them.”
Amen!

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:19 pm
by dizerner
remade wrote:Possibly. It seems that the devil and those who work for him -- their greatest desire is to win people from God. IF the idea of a different afterlife for people contrary to the Scriptures is presented to humanity, humanity may begin to question God's Word? I don't know.

I think that seeking demonic activity out and all that goes with it, opens oneself up to those things. CS Lewis wrote:
“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them.”
Amen!
I have NO doubt ghosts are real, close friends of mine I trust have seen them, but I think they are all evil spirits connected to evil occurrences.

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:30 pm
by TK
On another thread I mentioned the book "The Awakening" and a supplemental writing called "Blumhardt's Battle" about a real life exorcism by a pastor in Germany in the 1800s. The book is available online.

In that account there is no doubt that Blumhardt is dealing in part with departed human spirits, ghosts if you will. The gravith of the account and the Godliness of the pastor convinced me that at least in some cases ghosts are the actual departed spirits of people and not demons; however the spirits are being punished. I remember that the ghost in this story asked Blumhardt if she could sit in the back of the church during a service. He said he would allow it if Jesus permitted it and as long as she did not cause a distraction.

The story is definitely worth reading.

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:49 pm
by morbo3000
I agree TK. Great book. A friend of mine whose integrity I trust beyond measure was inspired by Blumhardt's ministry to the degree he did an english translation of a german biography of him. Blumhardts experience may fly in the face of some theology, but imo, there are so many gaps in the spiritual worldview the NT provides, that rethinking it is not unreasonable. I have another friend, again... someone whose spiritual, and intellectual integrity I trust, who is a ghost hunter. But not in the TV kind of manner. She's a skeptic, open to possibilities. She had a friend go with her on an investigation, who found the whole thing to be quite boring. All of that to say, we can chalk things up to the demonic, or slight of hand. But in some cases, there is just a big question mark.

Re: Ghosts

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:57 pm
by Paidion
When my grandfather was a teenager, he and his friend went to a seance just for entertainment. They weren't expecting any reality.

His friend asked to contact his dead mother. An apparition appeared that looked and talked like his mother. The friend was convinced that it was, in fact the spirit of his departed mother.

Then my grandfather asked to contact his mother. Again an apparition appeared that spoke with the voice of his mother. However, my grandfather's mother had not yet died! So clearly the spirit of his mother had not appeared and was not doing the talking. So who was doing it? In my opinion, in both cases it was a demon impersonating the mother of each of them—their way of convincing people that they don't really die, but continue to exist as spirits.

The apostle Paul, on the other hand, understood the necessity of a personal resurrection in order to obtain life after death. He understood that people are not naturally immortal. Indeed, he wrote the following:

What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” (1 Corinthians 15:32 ESV)

In other words, if we are not raised to life, we will remain dead, and this present life is the only life we will ever have.