Is our life-span fixed?

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robbyyoung
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Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:21 pm

steve7150 wrote: Exactly right. For a bible principal to be true you have to take it to it's conclusion and see if it's still makes sense. Not only would God be the cause of babies dying but also God would be the cause of abortions. Because if God goes beyond knowing but actually ordains death that means he causes it.
LOL! Take it to its conclusion? OK, Yahweh ordained Yeshua to die!

Also, if Yahweh ordained all life, for all souls are His, doesn't He decide when to take those souls back? For example; look what happened to all the little kiddies in 2 Kings 2:23-24!

God Bless.
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Paidion
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by Paidion » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:34 pm

dizerner, you wrote:I don't see any real admission in Scripture that God does not know all things.
And of course you realize that no open theist claims that God does not know all things. But there are some things that are unknowable. One of these is to know in advance what a free-will agent will choose. That's because there's nothing to know. Statements about the future have no present truth value. But let's assume for a moment that they do.

Let's assume that it is now true that you, dizerner will raise your hand at 2 P.M. on Sunday. Then when 2 P.M arrives, you will be unable to keep your hand down. For if you keep your hand down at that time then it is NOT now true that you will raise your hand at 2 P.M. on Sunday. So again if it IS now true that you will raise your hand at 2 P.M. on Sunday, then you will unable to keep your hand down at 2 P.M. on Sunday. So where is your free will?—your ability to choose.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dizerner

Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by dizerner » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:38 pm

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Paidion
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by Paidion » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:14 pm

Well I see the casual agent as different from the mere knowledge of the certainty of an occurrence.


So do I.

For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether. (Psa. 139:4)

I have no doubt that God knows every word which is on my tongue.

Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them." (Isa. 42:9)

Of course, God can declare the things He intends to do" before they spring forth".

And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them. (Isa. 44:7)

This seems to suggest that man is a poor predictor of the future. I think most people would agree with that.

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' (Isa. 46:10)

And you think that this affirms that God declares the end from the beginning of all events which will occur in the future?
Take a look at the context. It indicates that God declares the end from the beginning of his plans—what He intends to do.

9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.(NKJV)
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by dizerner » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:03 am

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backwoodsman
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by backwoodsman » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:01 pm

All I know is, if my lifespan is broken, I certainly want it fixed.

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Paidion
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by Paidion » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:20 pm

Do you think your actions yesterday where not free, because they no longer have uncertainty to them? Let's say at 2 P.M. yesterday, I raised my hand. I can't change that action anymore. It no longer has any uncertainty to it. There is nothing in all of space or time that could change my action that I did. It will forever and always be that at 2 P.M. I raised my hand. Does that logically mean I couldn't have done otherwise?
Not exactly analogous.

You were free to keep your hand down yesterday because yesterday at 2 P.M. that action was not yet settled. Now it IS settled, and cannot be altered. However, the future is NOT settled. For that reason the statement, "Dizerner raises his hand at 2 P.M. on Nov 5, 2014" has no truth value. That is, the statement is NEITHER true nor false. It will BECOME true or false at 2 P.M. when Dizerner makes his choice and not until then.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:44 pm

Hi Paidion,

Do you have a response to the following:

http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4968#p66280

God Bless.

dizerner

Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by dizerner » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:46 am

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robbyyoung
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:56 am

Hi dizerner & Paidion,

Would you agree the Yeshua is a great example of how The Father ultimately interacts with mankind? If so, Yeshua's entire life WAS DETERMINED. The Father knows all things. How do you explain away Yeshua's DETERMINED LIFE, along with, every single person effected by this "determinism"?

The OP asks, 'Is our life-span fixed?' The Father not knowing the answer to this question is a discomforting thought, but since I don't believe scripture teaches such a thing, I'm comforted in knowing The Father, all wise, doesn't make mistakes and knows my end from the beginning.

God Bless.

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