speaking in tongues

[verbatim]

Perry wrote:

For the record, I still don't feel like I've been given a straight up answer. Saying that the disciples spoke in tongues on Pentecost doesn't answer my question. I agree that they did. That's not the question.

I've never spoken in tongues. Am I damned?

I’ll never say that if a man doesn’t speak in tongues were damned as Scriptures say in 1 Cor 12:4-11

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I constantly meet Christians who pray and believe for God’s intervention in their lives, but remain frustrated with the results. It’s because they are missing the seeds of conception; they just don’t know God’s Word. 2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Speaking in tongues is related to the preaching of Jesus before his suffering. John 16:12-15

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

This is the baptism in Spirit through cleansing of water symbolized by the word of God.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Thanks and God bless.

[Perry]

I’ll never say that if a man doesn’t speak in tongues were damned...

Thanks for that verbatim. That is indeed a straight up answer, and it helps me more correctly see your position.

[Jepne]

What a rich thread this is! I read it twice – so much good writing and good thinking.

I would encourage everyone who may think this is ‘not for today’ to seek the Lord because it is not a matter of just ‘being able to speak in tongues’, but a question of becoming immersed in the Holy Spirit – coming alive in God, the fruit of which could be speaking in tongues as well as the other gifts of the Spirit. What Christian would not want to speak the words of God to this dying world and our struggling brothers and sisters?

There is a large body of literature giving the testimony of many that the baptism in the Holy Spirit seems to be a separate event after making a commitment to Jesus. Dennis Bennett’s “Nine O’clock in the Morning” tells of the wonderful thing the baptism in the Spirit did for his walk, and for the church he led. There is Nicky Cruz’s book of his deliverance from witchcraft and all manner of evil, and David Wilkerson’s “The Cross and the Switchblade” – we have a tremendously rich heritage in books on this topic.

There is a book by Jackie Pullinger, “Chasing the Dragon”. She, as a young woman, went to China and lived in Hong Kong in a district full of drugs and prostitutes. After years of struggle with people trying to break free of drugs, she saw great breakthroughs when she was taught about the baptism in the Holy Spirit. She was astounded when people who were coming off heroin had no withdrawal symptoms if they prayed in tongues. She said she prays in tongues a half hour every day before arising which I did also for a time and it was a very fruitful time – I am glad to be reminded of these things here.

Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit;

Homer said: “But I do not understand how a person would be built up while speaking words which to his mind convey no meaning.”

It is a spiritual thing that must be spiritually discerned. May I present to you the suggestion that you ask God about it, telling him that you are ready to change your mind about the whole subject if He shows you that you have been wrong? We all desperately need to be edified, and to deny ourselves that, is to deprive God, ourselves, and the saints of all that God wants to do through us.

[Jepne]

WWalkeriv asked: “If it's not too personal to ask, has anyone here spoken in tongues? Did you know you were doing it when you did it? The only exposure I had to it was frightening to me. I can still remember the exact phrase that was chanted over and over.”

We also have heard tongues that sounded like ‘strange fire’, but only once. Hopefully, elders know how to deal with such things.

My first experience with it is as follows:

As a hippie doing a lot of psychedelic drugs, I was not filled with love joy and peace like any good hippie should, so one day, spaced out on mushrooms, I said “God, if you’re real, help me.” A friend we were staying with had told me about Jesus and as she was leaving for church one day, she practically commanded me to go with her. We gathered in the neighbors’ living room where they sang love songs to God, intermittently praying for and with one another. A man sitting near me was ‘dovening’ and praying softly in what sounded like a beautiful ancient language; others spoke in other languages as well at various times. No one gave me the four spiritual laws or asked me to repeat a prayer or accept Jesus. Jesus was there in the room – if you stayed in that room, you were accepting Him. The meeting was about Jesus, not the gifts of the Spirit, although they were there as well. I think they are everywhere Jesus is.

There was no order as one finds in a ‘service’ – it was a live gathering with a living God. When it was over, as they chatted with one another in the kitchen, I realized that I was now a Christian, and that Jesus had risen from the dead! Also, it was four hours later, but it all had seemed like a moment.

Once home, the men rolled a joint and passed it around – I was absolutely amazed to hear “No, thank you” come from my lips, and I never really desired it again, from that time on. I went up to the room we were staying in, thinking to do my yoga and as I sat on the mat, I started saying “Hallelujah” and speaking in tongues. What an absolutely beautiful time, enveloped in His love. I began to read the Bible at every possible moment –in the car, waiting for food in the restaurant. Another new thing – we passed a police car on the road, and my first thought was that the policeman was a person with family who loved him – like - I wouldn’t be calling them ’pigs’ anymore.

It was like being totally in love, and I didn't have to wait for the phone to ring.

Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This is what it was like when my grandson died and other desperate times when there’s just nothing else to do!

Sometimes when feeling stressed, I will pray out in tongues for a moment or two. Sometimes during group prayer times, I am moved to pray softly in the spirit until I have something to pray in English. An outsider may doubt your motive and say you are only trying to sound spiritual, but God will not give you a stone when you are crying out for the Bread of Life, or lead you into deception or foolishness.

Maybe it is that being truly born-again includes the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Maybe some folks think they are born-again because they accepted Jesus and said a prayer with someone, but nothing changed in their lives. I didn’t say ‘the prayer’ or anything, but everything changed in my life, and I did not get baptised until months after my conversion, which, I was told, is not the way it is supposed to be scripturally.

I hope this helps. Bless you all as you seek Him.

[verbatim]

Jepne greetings,
God has bless you with good insight and understanding in regard to this thread which other are having an oversight in the spirituality of the words I would like to convey. Pray to the Father of our Lord Jesus, and our Father through the Holy Spirit and if you reach the acquainting of the WORD and the Spirit of Christ which is in us, then this is the moment that you are being born again and baptize by the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
After receiving the word in your heart water it by faith and prayer and God will give the increase.
Act 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.
Like the Jesus parable in Mark 4: 26-28 Mar 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
Grace and Peace.

[parsonsmom]

TK wrote:

Then Paul must have been a pentecostal/charismatic (i am certain he was!). He said he prayed in tongues. Why would he pray to God privately in an actual foreign language he didn't know? What purpose would there be in that?

And what purpose would there be in praying to God in a "heavenly language" Paul did not know? In either case he would not know what he was praying for and it would contradict Paul's stated intention to pray with his mind.

Actually, Paul is thought to have been multilingual and could have prayed in other languages with his mind fully engaged. When I was in high school I studied Spanish for three years and actually came to think in Spanish part of the time.

It seems rather odd to me that people think they have "speaking in tongues" all figured out when there is so little in scripture to build a doctrine on and then a subject like the final judgement can not be understood in spite of the plethora of warnings and stories

=======================================================================================================

============================================================================================================
Nine gifts of the Holy Spirit;
Shalom to you, I am Parsonsmom; I am new on your board; I had hoped to find a congenial place to participate; I pray this is true.
To be functioning member of the Body of Christ,as well as more efficent witnesses for Christ in the world; we need an understanding ofthe nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit; and their purpose that operates in our lives.

1Cor,12 tells us this;

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many. Lets talk about this. Respectfully; Parsonsmom

[parsonsmom]

Corinthians 12
NOW ABOUT the spiritual gifts; the special endowments of supernatural energy; I do not want you to be misinformed;
You know that when you were heathen; you were led off after idols that could not speak; habitually; as impulse directed and whenever the occasion might arise; I want you to understand that no one speaking under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit of God; can ever say Jesus be cursed; And no one can really say; Jesus is my Lord; except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit; Now there are distinctive varieties; and distributions; of endowments; gifts; extraordinary powers; distinguishing certain Christians; due to the power of divine grace operating in their souls by the Holy Spirit; and they vary, but the Holy Spirit remains the same; And there are distinctive varieties of service and ministration; but it is the same Lord; Who is served; And there are distinctive varieties of operation; of working to accomplish things; but it is the same God Who inspires and energizes them all; in all; But to each one is given the manifestation; of the Holy Spirit; the evidence the spiritual illumination; of the Spirit; for good and profit; To one is given in and through the Holy Spirit; the power to speak a message of wisdom; and to another the power to express; a word of knowledge; and understanding; according to the same Holy Spirit; To another wonder-working; faith by the same Holy Spirit; to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophetic insight; the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose; to another the ability to discern and distinguish between the utterances of true spirits; and false ones, to another various kinds of unknown tongues; to another the ability to interpret such tongues; All these gifts; achievements; abilities; are inspired and brought to pass by one; and the same; Holy Spirit Who apportions to each person individually; exactly; as He chooses; For just as the body is a unity and yet has many parts; and all the parts; though many form only one body; so it is with Christ; the Messiah; the Anointed One; For by means of the personal agency of one; Holy Spirit; we were all whether Jews or Greeks; slaves or free; baptized; and by baptism united together; into one body; and all made to drink of one; Holy Spirit; For the body does not consist of one limb or organ but of many. Respectfully Parsonsmom.

[Jepne]

It seems rather odd to me that people think they have "speaking in tongues" all figured out when there is so little in scripture to build a doctrine on and then a subject like the final judgement can not be understood in spite of the plethora of warnings and stories

If I spoke arrogantly as though I “have 'speaking in tongues' all figured out” and then went and built a doctrine with my own hands - my own understanding - I would certainly want to repent, but perhaps your post was addressed to TK - it is just that it came so soon after my two that I wondered if something I said upset you.

I think your quote from 1Cor 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

answers your question as to whether "divers kinds of tongues" is a heavenly gift from God or just another language that evolved through the worldly speaking of mere men.

I would really be interested to hear of your experience with God - how you found Him - or were found by Him – how He drew you by His spirit. Perhaps you would like to share with us.

[Jepne]

Greetings, Verbatim – I find your posts - your choices of scripture - very interesting. Perhaps you could elaborate on these a bit more – like what do they mean to you personally - how does it all come alive in your life?

How did you come into the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

To me it was a total surprise – like any true gift that one is not expecting, and then you try to put it together after the fact and the scripture becomes like ‘living water’. Bless you.

[verbatim]

Greetings, Verbatim – I find your posts - your choices of scripture - very interesting. Perhaps you could elaborate on these a bit more – like what do they mean to you personally - how does it all come alive in your life?

How did you come into the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

To me it was a total surprise – like any true gift that one is not expecting, and then you try to put it together after the fact and the scripture becomes like ‘living water’. Bless you.

Greetings Sister,
Pardon me for not answering your post, now maybe in my next post.
Thanks and God bless.