Outrage @ Outrage

Post by **_JC** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:53 am

Danny, I agree with Paidion on this one. The theology that the entire creation was affected by the curse is well supported in scripture. Along with the passage Paidion quoted about animals, we also find in Genesis that the ground was cursed so that thorns appeared and harvesting was made more difficult. Paul seems to echo this sentiment in his discussion of the New Creation (1 Cor. 15).

Also, I'm not impressed with the opinions of scientists (Christian or otherwise) when it comes to spiritual things. The reason is not bias but logical. Scientists can only observe things and test what is repeatable. So if they look at homosexual behavior in animals they will draw naturalistic conclusions as to why it occurs. But this tells us nothing of the genetic makeup of these animals before the curse, only after. In fact, we know from scripture that even animals can be demon possessed. What do these scientists say to that? Of course they'd laugh at the very notion but scripture affirms it in the account of the demon possessed swine. Science is not the beacon of truth on spiritual matters because it can only speak to things made of physical matter.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:47 pm

I understand the passion, but I don't understand the logic of fighting for a Christian definition of marriage in a nation or culture which has a plurality of religions (including a large number who profess no religion). I don't see accounts in my Bible of Jesus and the disciples lobbying against prostitution and unfair tax-collection. Instead, they brought the Good News to prostitutes and tax collectors. Jesus was accused of being a friend to prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners. Would anyone accuse you of being a friend to homosexuals?

Wait a minute, maybe I am reading you wrong, are you advocating that we must turn a blind eye to the homosexual lifestyle and its detrimental effects in order to be considered their "friend"? Jesus would have never wanted homosexual marriages to be a legal institution, and neither should Christians.

I agree that America is no longer a Christian nation, but that does not mean that we who are the "light of the world" should not voice the truth whenever we can, namely by telling the truth concerning gay marriage. It is an abomination, and it is a terrible lifestyle that leads to death.

As far as interracial marriage, I see no parallel whatsoever. One is acceptable, and one is abominable.

Allow me to ask you this, if you think that gay marriage should be legislated, would you support your church if they decided to hold a marriage ceremony for a gay couple?

Post by **_Murf** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:54 am

I a little confused by this thread. What exact is the role of the Christian?

Are we the guardians of the institute of Marriage?
Are we the judge of all nonChristians?
Are to use politics to spread the gospel?
How is Christ served if your particular point-of-view on this topic is actually what happens?

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 pm

I a little confused by this thread. What exact is the role of the Christian?

Are we the guardians of the institute of Marriage?

Yes, as are all other citizens in general.

Are we the judge of all nonChristians?

No. But that is irrelevant.

Are [we] to use politics to spread the gospel?

No. But irrelevant.

How is Christ served if your particular point-of-view on this topic is actually what happens?

The God-ordained institution of marriage (of which Christ approved, the details of which He taught His disciples) is preserved, a covenant for life between a man and a woman, whether or not all who marry honour that institution as God intended it.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:02 pm

Murf wrote:I a little confused by this thread. What exact is the role of the Christian?

Are we the guardians of the institute of Marriage?
Are we the judge of all nonChristians?
Are to use politics to spread the gospel?
How is Christ served if your particular point-of-view on this topic is actually what happens?

So what do you propose, do we just sit back and do nothing?

How would you feel if the government legalized pedophilia? And do you wanna know why that hasn't happened yet? Because men and women who know the truth spoke up!

What about abortion? Do you think we should just keep hush hush about that one too, while millions of innocent lives are destroyed? Christianity is "in your face". The Apostle Paul couldn't help but speak when walking through Athens. Act 17:16
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. Now what did Paul do in this situation? He spoke the truth!

Impotent Christianity is not what America needs right now. And I am in no way saying that I am the bravest Christian on the block, but the world needs more men and women who call "sin" sin, and are not ashamed to do so.

Post by **_TK** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:13 pm

brody wrote:

How would you feel if the government legalized pedophilia?

it pains me to even think it, but i do not see this as an impossibility. just as the homosexual lobbyists have insisted and brainwashed the public with the idea that it is a normal variant, I can very easily see this happening in the not too far distant future with pedophiles. they think they may have found a "pedophilia gene," after all.

who knows what will be happening 20 years from now.

I agree with you Brody-- passivity is not the answer.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. Mt. 12:11

TK

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:31 pm

TK wrote:brody wrote:

How would you feel if the government legalized pedophilia?
it pains me to even think it, but i do not see this as an impossibility. just as the homosexual lobbyists have insisted and brainwashed the public with the idea that it is a normal variant, I can very easily see this happening in the not too far distant future with pedophiles. they think they may have found a "pedophilia gene," after all.

who knows what will be happening 20 years from now.

I agree with you Brody-- passivity is not the answer.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. Mt. 12:11
TK

Exactly, where does it end? If the courts are going to re-define what the institution of marriage is, then why not re-define what pedophilia is? Organizations such as NAMBLA(North American man boy lovers association)would love to demand a change in the law and definition of what pedophilia is. So my question is, where does it end?

Christians are to warn people of the effects of sin, and its consequences.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:21 pm

How would you feel if the government legalized pedophilia? And do you wanna know why that hasn't happened yet? Because men and women who know the truth spoke up!

Suppose no one had spoken up or acted, on behalf of the black slaves of America. Caucasian men and women risked their lives to liberate these people. Are we so wimpy today that we will not risk arrest for the sake of the children who are being killed today in the womb ---- especially in the third trimester of pregnancy.

Do we really really refuse to defend marriage out of conviction? Or does our refusal stem from fear?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:26 am

Suppose no one had spoken up or acted, on behalf of the black slaves of America. Caucasian men and women risked their lives to liberate these people. Are we so wimpy today that we will not risk arrest for the sake of the children who are being killed today in the womb ---- especially in the third trimester of pregnancy.

The difference between abortion and slavery and pedophila verses homosexuality is that the first three affect innocents whereas the homosexual is using his own body and supposedly not affecting non consenting other parties.
If the issue is the sanctity of marriage it just seems so hypocritical that Christians who divorce as often as the secular world and who have absolutely not set any kind of example for the secular world should be marching in the streets against gay marriage.
We need to voice our opinions and vote for godly legislators but we need to set examples for the secular world before we go marching in the streets.
No matter what happens a gay marriage is not a marriage in the eyes of the God of the bible which is what we are really concerning ourselves about. If we think we are going to change this culture by attacking gays we are sadly mistaken but on the other hand it is a lot easier to do that then to get our own house in order.

Post by **_Murf** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:53 pm

I don't recall advocating sitting back and doing anything including nothing. I'm simply asking these questions because it seems to me that the Roman Empire legalized just about everything anyone has brought up in this thread and I don't see Jesus or the Apostles fixing the problems by getting involved with the government.

God ordained many things. All of which the non-Christian world disregards. Changing or preserving the legal definition of marriage won’t help the disregard that today’s Christians hold for the institute of marriage (a 46%ish divorce rate).

I don’t believe the early Church was successful because it was passive. I believe it was success because Christ was the center of their message as well as their daily lives regardless of the personal cost.