How can people do good?

[kenblogton]

Hi Ken,

I'm late to this conversation, but I was curious; Are you a Catholic? I've never heard anyone say that the early Church councils were infallible, unless they had a Catholic background. Maybe I don't run in the right circles.

Regards, Brenden.

Hi Brenden
No, I'm not RC. However, I believe that:
1. The Bible is without error and its interpretation is without error if based on all the passages on any topic.
2. The Protestants and Jews say that there are only 39 Canonical Old Testament books (the Hebrew/ Aramaic Tanakh), based on a declaration by a Council of Rabbis at Jamnia in Palestine, which is near Jerusalem, around 90 AD. At http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/canon.cfm, it states"The formation of the New Testament canon began in the early part of the second century A.D. The earliest list was drawn up in Rome, in A.D. 140, by the heretic Marcion. Although his list was not authoritative, it did demonstrate that the idea of a New Testament canon was accepted at that time.
The concept we have today of a completed Bible was formulated early in the history of the church. By the end of the second century all but seven books (Hebrews, 2 and 3 John, 2 Peter, Jude, James, and Revelation) were recognized as apostolic, and by the end of the fourth century all twenty-seven books in our present canon were recognized by all the churches of the West. After the Damasine Council of Rome in A.D. 332 and the third Council of Carthage in A.D. 397 the question of the Canon was closed in the West. By the year 500 the whole Greek-speaking church had also accepted all the books in our present New Testament."
3. Since early councils (pre-500 AD) decided the canon of New Testament Scripture, it seems to me arbitrary to pick and choose among the other early church councils as to which ones we will believe and accept. I believe God protected His church from error.
4. Once the canon of Scripture was solidly established, I believe human error/bias began to occur in church councils.
kenblogton

[kenblogton]

To summarize how people can do good:
1. No one can do unconditionally loving good unless inspired by God the Holy Spirit.
2. Even Jesus tells us that He, the human Jesus, is not good without God.
3. When Jesus did His miracles, people said "Praise God" and not "Praise Jesus."
4. When Jesus healed the woman with long-term bleeding, He said "I know that power has gone from me." - Holy Spirit power; she was not healed by merely touching Jesus (Luke: 8:46).
5. In John 15:5, Jesus tells us that without Him, we can do nothing [good] and in John 15:26 &16:13 tells us the Holy Spirit will be our guide [to doing good]after Jesus' departure.
kenblogton

[Michelle]

To summarize how people can do good:
1. No one can do unconditionally loving good unless inspired by God the Holy Spirit.
2. Even Jesus tells us that He, the human Jesus, is not good without God.
3. When Jesus did His miracles, people said "Praise God" and not "Praise Jesus."
4. When Jesus healed the woman with long-term bleeding, He said "I know that power has gone from me." - Holy Spirit power; she was not healed by merely touching Jesus (Luke: 8:46).
5. In John 15:5, Jesus tells us that without Him, we can do nothing [good] and in John 15:26 &16:13 tells us the Holy Spirit will be our guide [to doing good]after Jesus' departure.
kenblogton

Hi, kenblogton, I'm curious as to why you've expended so much effort to make this point. What do you want those who have responded (and other readers) to do with this knowledge?

[kenblogton]

To summarize how people can do good:
1. No one can do unconditionally loving good unless inspired by God the Holy Spirit.
2. Even Jesus tells us that He, the human Jesus, is not good without God.
3. When Jesus did His miracles, people said "Praise God" and not "Praise Jesus."
4. When Jesus healed the woman with long-term bleeding, He said "I know that power has gone from me." - Holy Spirit power; she was not healed by merely touching Jesus (Luke: 8:46).
5. In John 15:5, Jesus tells us that without Him, we can do nothing [good] and in John 15:26 &16:13 tells us the Holy Spirit will be our guide [to doing good]after Jesus' departure.
kenblogton

Hi, kenblogton, I'm curious as to why you've expended so much effort to make this point. What do you want those who have responded (and other readers) to do with this knowledge?

Hi Michelle
The reason for my effort to make this point is that it took me 35 years as a believer to come to understand that my aim as a believer was not to make myself a better person or a perfect one in my own strength - an impossible task - but to turn control of my life actions over to God the Holy Spirit and allow Him to inspire me to do good. In my own strength, the good I did was conditionally loving good: if I did something good for others, I at least deserved a thank-you. Unconditionally loving good means just that - no conditions - a free gift.
I came to understand this through reading and really coming to understand the Scriptures which told me that Jesus the man said to not call Him good because no one was good except God; in other words, the good that Jesus did was inspired or enabled by God the Holy Spirit and not done in His natural human strength. He was setting a life model or example for us to follow.
My hope was to help others see that the attempt to perfect yourself in your own strength or through your own efforts is impossible, so frustrating and discouraging, and to give up the attempt - stop wasting your time - and look to the Holy Spirit for inspiration. Then, when you do Holy Spirit inspired good, you have no problem letting people know the praise for the good deed you've done belongs to God, your source of inspiration, and not to you and to your "natural goodness."
Thanks for asking.
kenblogton

[Homer]

Ken,

Yes, and another problem is feeling you have done wrong and that you will do something good to make up for it. There is no making up for it.

[Paidion]

Yes, and another problem is feeling you have done wrong and that you will do something good to make up for it. There is no making up for it.

I'm surprised that you have said this, Homer. Isn't "making up for it" what atonement is? Isn't this also called "restitution" in law? If you run your car into my fence, I might say to you, "You're going to have to atone for that." How do you atone for it? By repairing the fence.

Sometimes our wrong is such that we cannot make full atonement. For example, if you have started a fire to burn the grass on your property, and the fire gets away from you and burns down my house together with the contents, you might not have sufficent funds to make it up to me. However, if you express repentance and give me what funds you are able, you prove your repentance to be genuine, and I may forgive you the rest of your debt.

Whether full restitution is made or only partial, it is a necessary part of expressing true repentance. When forgiveness is offered, reconciliation takes place.

But maybe this is not what you have in mind when you wrote, "There is no making up for it." Perhaps you are thinking of people who think they can balance their wrongdoing with good acts, and so negate the wrongdoing. If that is what you had in mind, I fully agree.

[Michelle]

Hi Michelle
The reason for my effort to make this point is that it took me 35 years as a believer to come to understand that my aim as a believer was not to make myself a better person or a perfect one in my own strength - an impossible task - but to turn control of my life actions over to God the Holy Spirit and allow Him to inspire me to do good. In my own strength, the good I did was conditionally loving good: if I did something good for others, I at least deserved a thank-you. Unconditionally loving good means just that - no conditions - a free gift.
I came to understand this through reading and really coming to understand the Scriptures which told me that Jesus the man said to not call Him good because no one was good except God; in other words, the good that Jesus did was inspired or enabled by God the Holy Spirit and not done in His natural human strength. He was setting a life model or example for us to follow.
My hope was to help others see that the attempt to perfect yourself in your own strength or through your own efforts is impossible, so frustrating and discouraging, and to give up the attempt - stop wasting your time - and look to the Holy Spirit for inspiration. Then, when you do Holy Spirit inspired good, you have no problem letting people know the praise for the good deed you've done belongs to God, your source of inspiration, and not to you and to your "natural goodness."
Thanks for asking.
kenblogton

Thank you for the explanation, kenblogton.

[Homer]

Paidion,

You wrote:

But maybe this is not what you have in mind when you wrote, "There is no making up for it." Perhaps you are thinking of people who think they can balance their wrongdoing with good acts, and so negate the wrongdoing. If that is what you had in mind, I fully agree.

That's it! We agree.