Dear Mr. Beversluis
Yes. On my view one must apply something of the same sort of explanation to, say, the atrocities (and treacheries) of Joshua. I see the grave danger we run by doing so; but the dangers of believing in a God whom we cannot but regard as evil, and then, in mere terrified flattery calling Him 'good' and worshiping Him, is still greater danger. The ultimate question is whether the doctrine of the goodness of God or that of the inerrancy of Scriptures is to prevail when they conflict. I think the doctrine of the goodness of God is the more certain of the two. Indeed, only that doctrine renders this worship of Him obligatory or even permissible.
To this some will reply 'ah, but we are fallen and don't recognize good when we see it.' But God Himself does not say that we are as fallen as all that. He constantly, in Scripture, appeals to our conscience: 'Why do ye not of yourselves judge what is right?' -- 'What fault hath my people found in me?' And so on. Socrates' answer to Euthyphro is used in Christian form by Hooker. Things are not good because God commands them; God commands certain things because he sees them to be good. (In other words, the Divine Will is the obedient servant to the Divine Reason.) The opposite view (Ockham's, Paley's) leads to an absurdity. If 'good' means 'what God wills' then to say 'God is good' can mean only 'God wills what he wills.' Which is equally true of you or me or Judas or Satan.
But of course having said all this, we must apply it with fear and trembling. Some things which seem to us bad may be good. But we must not consult our consciences by trying to feel a thing good when it seems to us totally evil. We can only pray that if there is an invisible goodness hidden in such things, God, in His own good time will enable us to see it. If we need to. For perhaps sometimes God's answer might be What is that to thee?' The passage may not be 'addressed to our (your or my) condition' at all.
I think we are very much in agreement, aren't we?
Yours sincerely, C. S. Lewis
C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
Lol, that C.S. Lewis. He contradicts himself in this little letter.
Then he simply undermines his whole foundation with: "Some things which seem to us bad may be good." And how, pray tell Mr. Lewis, are we to know what things we think are bad are actually good among all the things we think are good? Oh, that's right, we have no way on our own. Which proves we are indeed "fallen and can't recognize good and evil."
Thanks for posting this it was interesting.
This is my position entirely. His rebuttal of it is weak. He quotes two verses completely out of context. Then makes a claim that there is a goodness outside of God, which is untenable.To this some will reply 'ah, but we are fallen and don't recognize good when we see it.'
Then he simply undermines his whole foundation with: "Some things which seem to us bad may be good." And how, pray tell Mr. Lewis, are we to know what things we think are bad are actually good among all the things we think are good? Oh, that's right, we have no way on our own. Which proves we are indeed "fallen and can't recognize good and evil."
Yes we should pray this, our eternal soul may depend on it.We can only pray that if there is an invisible goodness hidden in such things, God, in His own good time will enable us to see it.
This is treasonous. To insist that we can determine what God should be, and we are the ultimate Judge of God, is blasphemous, foolish and preposterous. When we meet the power of infinite galaxies and suns we will understand that God's infinite power does make him right, and not according to what we think or want. What kind of worship is this? "Wait, God let me bring out my checklist and make sure you meet all this criteria." As if we are a better judge of good and evil than God Almighty? That is the very sin that Adam committed that introduced evil into this world.Indeed, only that doctrine renders this worship of Him obligatory or even permissible.
Thanks for posting this it was interesting.
Re: C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
I love this letter because it makes for interesting conversation among conservative Christians who elevate Lewis to a high status but only know of the Chronicles of Narnia and The Screwtape Letters.
Not to say I agree with the letter, but I just enjoy the double-take by Lewis' fanatics who have never heard of such writings of his. He also has one where he calls the story of Job and Jonah being swallowed by a fish legends. I find it interesting reading.
Not to say I agree with the letter, but I just enjoy the double-take by Lewis' fanatics who have never heard of such writings of his. He also has one where he calls the story of Job and Jonah being swallowed by a fish legends. I find it interesting reading.
Re: C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
Diz, clearly you do not understand Lewis's letter. I won't bother explaining, since you are unlikely to understand that either.
Jaydam, Clive Staples Lewis, is trying to show Mr. Beversluis that he is not quite as far away from Bevesluis's thinking as Beversluis thinks he is. Beversluis had written a whole book in an attempt to both support Lewis's philosophical thinking, and to question some aspects of that thinking.
Beversluis wrote a book entitled, "C.S. Lewis and the Search for Rational Religion." You can look into the book at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Search-Rational-R ... 1591025311
Jaydam, Clive Staples Lewis, is trying to show Mr. Beversluis that he is not quite as far away from Bevesluis's thinking as Beversluis thinks he is. Beversluis had written a whole book in an attempt to both support Lewis's philosophical thinking, and to question some aspects of that thinking.
Beversluis wrote a book entitled, "C.S. Lewis and the Search for Rational Religion." You can look into the book at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Search-Rational-R ... 1591025311
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
Yea, Calvinists tell me I don't understand Calvinism too. Seems like logically disproving something equals not understanding it.
Re: C.S. Lewis's Letter to Mr. Beversluis
I'm not attempting to logically disprove anything. I only commented on your lack of understanding. The statements you used in your attack on Lewis were false. Lewis wasn't saying what you claimed he was saying.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.