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Less than ideal?

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:08 pm
by jaydam
At what point can a Christian willfully participate in living a life which is less that a righteous world ideal because the world is fallen?

I think of Old Testament polygamy. We would say that is not "right" yet God did not abolish it in the Law, rather he commanded that one wife not be loved more than another.

This question is primarily directed at nationalism and violence. "Ideally" there would be no national divisions between people and no violence, yet there is, so can a Christian be less than ideal and participate in:

American (or any national) exceptionalism - including to the point of denying entry to refugees because its better they suffer out there than we put our necks on the line and possibly let a terrorist sneak in with them and hurt some of us.

Violence - pretty much on any level

Re: Less than ideal?

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:00 pm
by dizerner
It's a good question but I don't think I know the answer...

Re: Less than ideal?

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:05 pm
by mattrose
On that issue, I see it like this...

I am a citizen of the Kingdom of God. We help people like refugees that are in our midst (even if they ARE terrorists!).

I live in the United States... a worldly nation. Worldly nations have a God-given role to maintain peace within their borders through wise and just policies.

No matter what the worldly nation (in this case, the USA) chooses to do in response to refugees, it doesn't change my approach to refugees. If God brings them to our church community, we have a responsibility to minister to them.

On the broader question, I think we always strive for and advocate for the ideal. It's easier to put up with that which is less than ideal if you're simultaneously working to bring about progress toward that ideal.

Re: Less than ideal?

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:12 pm
by Paidion
I think Jesus would say, "Hear my words and do them," (Matt 5, 6, and 7) "no matter what your country of the world around you does!"

To do as Jesus said sometimes brings suffering and ridicule or even persecution upon Christians. Notwithstanding, the early Christians thought it worth it to obey Christ, and as a result of doing so, many were tortured to death, thrown to the lions, crucified, etc. Yet Jesus said:
Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Matt 7:24-27 ESV)
The question remains, "Will we do as He instructed? Or will we make choices that allow us to live in comfort?"

Jaydam, your point about denying entry to the Syrian Refugees in order to better ensure our safety is a good example. That seems sensible, but in fact is twisted thinking. For the reality is that none, or virtually none of those refugees are agents of ISIS, but are genuine refugees from oppression. Throughout the Bible record, Old Testament and New, God urges his people to give relief to the needy and suffering.

Re: Less than ideal?

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:21 pm
by morbo3000
mattrose wrote:On that issue, I see it like this...

I am a citizen of the Kingdom of God. We help people like refugees that are in our midst (even if they ARE terrorists!).

I live in the United States... a worldly nation. Worldly nations have a God-given role to maintain peace within their borders through wise and just policies.

No matter what the worldly nation (in this case, the USA) chooses to do in response to refugees, it doesn't change my approach to refugees. If God brings them to our church community, we have a responsibility to minister to them.

On the broader question, I think we always strive for and advocate for the ideal. It's easier to put up with that which is less than ideal if you're simultaneously working to bring about progress toward that ideal.
Totally agree. Me moving my family to Canada is a familiar refrain in this house. For one reason, safety. Terrorists aren't bombing Canadian schools. For another, the strong support of a large percentage of our country for a certain candidate is very frightening. The refugee situation has brought to the surface a profound xenophobia in many of our citizens.

I realize that I must return to my anabaptist roots. I don't need to move to Canada to stop being a citizen of my country of origin. I simply need to put my mind on things above, and live out my citizenship in the empire of God. (A translation of the phrase I like a lot.)


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