Christians and War

[Guest]

I thought I would open this can o' worms.

"Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting, that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." John 18:36 NASB

Is this a prescription against Christians joining militaries of the world? Much of the support given by Christians who endorse believers joining the military is derived from Old Testament themes of God leading Israel into war, and being an advocate of the defenseless. I could post those relevant verses, but in the interest of my own time, and the trust that many of you are familiar with the arguments, I won't. Some also point to men of the Old Testament who were warriors.

The New Testament arguments I have seen are derived from Christ's character and concern for the innocent, and references to Romans 13:1-5. " Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil. Wherefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake." I don't think this is a sound pro-Christian soldier argument, but have seen it tossed about.

Also, the common arguments that I have read refer to Jesus not being a pacifist (this I take as a jab against pacifism, but I think deflects the argument), because He drove moneychangers out of the temple; that Jesus is seen in Revelation 19:12-15 as having "eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself. And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty."

So too, I'm reading arguments in favor of Christian participation in war that mention the references to centurions in the New Testament as having commendable traits, coupled with the various references to the church and Christian being an army and a soldier, respectively (Eph. 6; 1 Cor. 9:7; 2 Tim. 2:4, etc.).

To keep focused and not get bogged down into a discussion about an individual Christian's right to defend himself and others, should a Christian not join the military because the New Covenant principles demand this, or are Christians free to be convinced in their own minds concerning this issue? If I have set up a false dichotomy, please inform me. I admit to my own dimness.

JD

[Guest]

I think that is a good question, and a tough one, when thought out.

At first glance, it does seem self-evident to me that the Christian worldview should be pacifistic. I dont think a christian should join the military, at least in a fighting role. Especially in this country, where we use our military often, to secure our "national interests".

As far as defending the defenseless around the world, the reality is that we dont..........unless they have oil. And we havent in a while.

But those situations can be controlled by police actions, and the U.N. should have a force that is actually willing to intervene. But the politics of the world will always get in the way, so i dont see how joining our military will help those problems in any way.

So i think its crazy a christian would join the military to kill others. I dont think christians even have the choice to be convinced in their own minds. Once one contemplates our Govt, its actions around the world, which causes many of these wars, and problems, (along with the western world), i cant see how any christian can justify killing others for the sake of our imperialism.

[Guest]

This discussion has been covered throughout many posts going back a few years. I myself have brought this issue up in this forum, and if you look through the previous posts in this section, I'm sure that you can find a plethera of responses.

My study of the history of Christianity and war shows that the early church did not approve of Christian participation in war. Justin Martyr said that the fact that the Christians didn't participate in war shows that the Christian has been truly changed. Tertullian was also very forthright about non-participation in war. If we don't even sue people who have mistreated us, why would we go to war?

Steve has also written an article about the Christian use of forcible resistence which you might want to check out.

Personally, I'm all for defending the lowly and outcaste; I work pro bono as an advocate for justice and reconciliation, and have done lobbying work. I think that we have to carefully exam the claims of some politicians who say that they are Christians and then do the opposite of what Jesus would do. If we don't, then we've allowed the politicians, who are operating in the spirit of the anti-Christ (by that I mean they do the opposite of what Christ does), to co-opt our Christian communities. If someone on the street said that God told them to go and kill, we'd be kind and have them get a mental health evaluation. But when our leaders say that God told them to go and invade and kill, why don't we hold them to the same standard? Simply saying that our cause is just and right doesn't make it so.

If a Christian was in the active military say as in Iraq, and say shoots at an alleged insurgent and accidentally kills a "civilian" who happens to be a Christian, hasn't he just murdered his Christian brother? If you hate your brother the love of God isn't in you, how much more if you kill him? I just think that Christians in the military provides too much of a compromised situation. There are other ways to work for peace and to counter terrorism that do not involve the barrel of a gun. As Chairman Mao said: "Power is what comes out of the barrel of a gun". Is that how we as Christians want to emulate, do the things that these war-mongers and murderers do? I think the answer is no.

[Guest]

Here are the links to the previous threads relevant to this topic:

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=186
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=326
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=157