Please help! Correct me if I'm wrong...

[Guest]

This is a question for Steve and those who have listened to or read his teaching on marriage/divorce/ remarriage. Steve is one of very few who I've found to give truthful, Biblical answers to tough questions, regardless of how people feel about the answer.

I'm going to provide a series of statements. Please label each one as "CORRECT" or "INCORRECT", providing any comments you deem necessary.

1. A man who marries a woman who has been divorced has committed adultery, if that woman's divorce was based on unbiblical grounds (i.e. she left a previous legitimate marriage because she didn't love the first husband anymore).

2. That man is continuously committing adultery by staying married to a woman who was divorced on unbiblical grounds, regardless of whether he repents, is sorry for what he has done, and has asked for forgiveness a million times.

3. Even if her first husband gets remarried and releases her from an obligation to go back to him, this does not legitamize the second marriage because the first marriage was left on unbiblical grounds. (THIS IS A KEY QUESTION IN MY SITUATION.)

4. If that man is continuously committing adultery by staying married to a woman who was divorced, the only solution for him is to leave the marriage and file for divorce. He cannot stay married and expect to be considered a disciple of Jesus Christ because he is in an adulterous relationship. Staying in this adulterous "marriage", in other words, is not something that God can forgive (Heb. 13:4).

5. God did not view this relationship as a true marriage in the first place, but rather as adultery, no matter how long the man and the divorced woman were married, no matter if they have children, a house, cars, home furnishings, and an extended family.

6. The man leaving this "marriage" would not be considered the sin of divorce since it was not a legitimate, Biblical marriage in the first place.

7. The woman in this case is not free to remarry under any circumstance for the rest of her life because she left her first husband and forced a divorce on unbiblical grounds. She can be forgiven, but cannot re-enter another marriage because it would be adulterous.


I am in dire need of help here, so I look forward to any and all help I can receive in this matter. Please let me know if you need further elaboration on any of the above points.

Thanks,
Dave in Wichita, KS

(PS...Steve, I asked you about my situation on the radio show back in October, but I gave you inaccurate information. You asked me if she left her first husband, if he left her, or if it was mutual. I said on the radio it was mutual, but later found out that he wanted to make the marriage work, but she didn't love him so she wanted a divorce and he complied....later he got remarried, then she and I got married. For that reason, I wanted to get clarification....if I'm going to leave my wife of 11 years, I want to be certain I'm doing it based on pure Biblical grounds.)

[Guest]

Davidwlowe,

You said:

You asked me if she left her first husband, if he left her, or if it was mutual. I said on the radio it was mutual, but later found out that he wanted to make the marriage work, but she didn't love him so she wanted a divorce and he complied....later he got remarried, then she and I got married. For that reason, I wanted to get clarification....if I'm going to leave my wife of 11 years, I want to be certain I'm doing it based on pure Biblical grounds.)

Just my two-cents, but in my opinion when her husband remarried, she was released from any obligation to him and was thus free to marry you. Although she sinned in divorcing her former husband, she can receive forgiveness.

[Guest]

Hi David,

I would just want to start by saying that no marriage should be dissolved hastily and I would beg that you get all the best godly counsel you can and prayerfully consider all the ramifications before doing anything.

My opinion regarding your questions:

1. Correct

2. Correct, but the bigger issue is her repentance and reparation IMO.

3. Correct (in-part), but I don't think it has to mean the marriage can't be legitimized. Think of David and Bathsheba. Illigitimate murderous, adulterous marriage that I believe God saw as legitimate after repentance since there was no way to undo the sin and restore Bathsheba to her husband.

4. Not necessarily. I think if there was repentance and an attempt to make things right (i.e. restore the original marriage), but the door is closed (i.e. her husband remarried), then I believe God is "faithful and just" to forgive and count the current marriage as not only legitimate, but binding. Two wrongs don't make a right.

5. Correct. But again, I think it needs to be tempered with the acts of repentance and obedience by the parties involved.

6. Incorrect. (see #4 comments)

7. Incorrect. I believe once she has repented and has made every effort to reconcile but found the door closed, she is not bound in any way to a lifetime of celebacy. I don't know of any scripture that would support such a notion and it doesn't seem to fit God's revealed character.


I sense that you have a strong desire to be obedient to the Lord and that's a good thing. But what you've posted sounds desperate and somewhat confused IMO brother. I would strongly encourage you to take this very slow and prayerfully seek clarity from the scriptures and the godliest men you know.

I know many people who have been divorced and remarried and many of them did so sinfully. However, because of their repentance and the doors being closed on the previous marriages, I personally consider their present marriages to be legitimate.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on your situation. My prayers are with you brother.

P.S. Have you talked this over with your wife?

[Guest]

Hi David,
I sense that you have a strong desire to be obedient to the Lord and that's a good thing. But what you've posted sounds desperate and somewhat confused IMO brother. I would strongly encourage you to take this very slow and prayerfully seek clarity from the scriptures and the godliest men you know.

I know many people who have been divorced and remarried and many of them did so sinfully. However, because of their repentance and the doors being closed on the previous marriages, I personally consider their present marriages to be legitimate.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on your situation. My prayers are with you brother.

P.S. Have you talked this over with your wife?

Christopher,
Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately, opinions aren't what will convince me. I need strong Biblical interpretation.

Yes, my wife knows about this situation, and she is exasperated with my wondering about whether God views our relationship as adultery rather than a legitimate marriage.

Can anyone else help here? Steve Gregg, can you possibly answer this post?

Thanks

[Guest]

David,

Here is what I understand the scripture to teach. I agree with Homer and I can tell that Christopher (above) seems to hold views like mine, though he may be understanding your questions differently than I am reading them, leading to his answering them slightly differently in a few cases. I will answer each statement "from scratch" as if I had not read the comments of others, and may therefore repeat some ideas found there. I will put your statements in boldface, and mine in ordinary type:

1. A man who marries a woman who has been divorced has committed adultery, if that woman's divorce was based on unbiblical grounds (i.e. she left a previous legitimate marriage because she didn't love the first husband anymore).

This is true, if I understand Matthew 5:32; 19:9 and Mark 10:12 correctly-- with the exception of a case where, after she had sinned in divorcing her husband, he went out and had a sexual relationship with and/or married another woman prior to her remarrying. My reason for this exception is that his going for another woman is essentially a renunciation of his marriage to the wife who left him (he had the option of waiting faithfully for her to return). His taking another woman would be either a) adultery, if his departed wife has not been with another man since leaving, or b) a justified renunciation of his first wife upon the basis of her adultery. In either case, I believe that she is released from any obligation to return to him upon her repentance of her sin. If her first husband has thus "released" her from himself, I believe that she is free to remarry. It sounds as if this might have been the case with your wife when she married you.

2. That man is continuously committing adultery by staying married to a woman who was divorced on unbiblical grounds, regardless of whether he repents, is sorry for what he has done, and has asked for forgiveness a million times.

Assuming the marriage to have been sinful at its inception, it obviously requires repentance to take place on the part of both who sinned (as with any sin). Repentance is enough, in cases where no restitution can be made. Where restitution is a possibility, I believe it is required. Namely, if there is a jilted husband, remaining faithful to his wife, though she has left him, he has every right to have her restored to him by the one who has illegitimately taken her. Once again, this does not apply, in my understanding, when the jilted spouse has ceased to wait and has taken another mate, or has died. As Chris pointed out, the case of Paltiel's marriage to Michal and of David's marriage to Bathsheba seem to provide examples of this principle. True, David had taken other wives after Michal, and still demanded her back, but there was in Israel the assumption that a man could have multiple wives simultaneously without renouncing earlier marriage covenants (Ex.21:10-11).

3. Even if her first husband gets remarried and releases her from an obligation to go back to him, this does not legitamize the second marriage because the first marriage was left on unbiblical grounds. (THIS IS A KEY QUESTION IN MY SITUATION.)

I would not say this. I believe that David married Bathsheba sinfully. When he repented, there was no suggestion that the marriage continued to be illegitimate, since there was no living first husband to whom Bathsheba would otherwise have had to return. I don't know how David and Bathsheba may have come to terms with this after repentance, but I think it would be wise for the couple at least to repent together before God for their former disobedience and to ask Him to legitimize their present marriage.

4. If that man is continuously committing adultery by staying married to a woman who was divorced, the only solution for him is to leave the marriage and file for divorce. He cannot stay married and expect to be considered a disciple of Jesus Christ because he is in an adulterous relationship. Staying in this adulterous "marriage", in other words, is not something that God can forgive (Heb. 13:4).

It is true that an adulterer cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor.6:9-10). I would not be inclined to state that "Staying in this adulterous 'marriage...is not something that God can forgive." I would sooner say that a disciple is one committed to obedience to Christ (John 8:31). Thus, knowingly living in adultery would lethally challenge any claim to true discipleship. However, where someone is ignorant of the sinfulness of their marriage, I would not be quick to judge that he or she cannot be a true Christian.

5. God did not view this relationship as a true marriage in the first place, but rather as adultery, no matter how long the man and the divorced woman were married, no matter if they have children, a house, cars, home furnishings, and an extended family.

Sadly, for such a couple, I do not believe that the passage of time alone legitimizes adultery. Look at it this way: If the second marriage is nothing more than state-sanctioned adultery, then the state's sanction cannot receive recognition from God, who is the one who declared it to be adultery. Picture the same couple without the (illegitimate) second marriage license. Let's say she left her first husband and shacked up with a second guy for 10 years, while her first husband wept and prayed for her return day-by-day. The passage of time does not ersae the continuing fact of her breaking the covenant she made to her first husband. In her "shacked-up" relationship, she might even have had children, acquired community property, and developed a great relationship with the new guy's family. They are still living in adultery, and upon repentance, she would obviously be expected to go back to her faithful husband. The presence of a piece of paper from a judge, claiming their adultery is a marriage changes nothing.

6. The man leaving this "marriage" would not be considered the sin of divorce since it was not a legitimate, Biblical marriage in the first place.


If we are talking about a man whose marriage is sin, and whose wife really is supposed to go back to her first husband, then I believe this is correct. It should be understood, however, in light of the caveats that I gave to some of the earlier points.

7. The woman in this case is not free to remarry under any circumstance for the rest of her life because she left her first husband and forced a divorce on unbiblical grounds. She can be forgiven, but cannot re-enter another marriage because it would be adulterous.

Like Christopher and Homer, I do not believe that her sin in the past must determine forever her ability to remarry. AS explained above, if restitution (restoration of the first marriage) is not in the realm of possibility, it is not mandatory. I do not know of a scriptural reason why a woman who has sinned in the past cannot repent and be available for remarriage when there is no requirement of restitution.

It seems that, though she sinned in divorcing her husband, he released her by engaging in another relationship prior to your marrying her, thus leaving her available to marry you without sin. Thus, I don't believe that you sinned in marrying her.

Obviously, many Christians see these issues very differently than I do. However, based on what you have shared about the history of your marriage, I would advise:

1. Your wife should acknowledge to God her wrongness in divorcing her husband in the first place, asking forgiveness. She would do well to apologize to her first husband about this as well, though she should not give him reason to believe that she sees their relationship as something needing to be restored;

2. You should not even consider divorce from your wife, nor give her any reason to feel insecure about your commitment to her. If you agree that the Bible teaches the things I have presented, you should get back to her and tell her that you do not believe that your marriage was sin, and that she needn't worry that you will view her or your marriage as tainted in any way.

I hope I am reading the situation and God's mind on these things correctly, and that you will come to a place of conviction on the matter that will be unassailable in the face of attempts that the devil and people may make to bring condemnation.

[Guest]

Forgive me if I am intruding...Wouldn't it depend on IF this was all
done before becoming christians? And, the maturity levels of both?

I have a lady friend that was divorced she divorced husband as she was a young believer. ( no adultery) She married a godly man and after much soul searching SHE left the marriage and has chosen to remain single. She gave her first husband the option to return to marriage but he did not want to..SHe remains single and many christians
exhorted my friend for leaving the godly man....So what about this?

[Guest]

davidlowe wrote:

If that man is continuously committing adultery by staying married to a woman who was divorced, the only solution for him is to leave the marriage and file for divorce. He cannot stay married and expect to be considered a disciple of Jesus Christ because he is in an adulterous relationship. Staying in this adulterous "marriage", in other words, is not something that God can forgive (Heb. 13:4).

I guess i need to lay out a question/example here because I am not sure if I understand 100% what Steve G and Christopher are saying.

Woman (a christian) divorces her spouse because of a miserable marriage. No true biblical grounds exist. Man, a christian, divorces his wife for similar reasons. Man meets Woman, they fall in love, and get married. The spouses of both Man and Woman do not re-marry. Man and Woman have a happy marriage and perhaps have children. They realize that their divorces were not biblically valid, but divorcing their present spouse and returning to their former spouses with whom they were miserable is not an option. They grow in their faith, they go to church, and are a happy family.

Is it your opinion that this Man and Woman cannot be forgiven and are hellbound? This is an important question because this type of divorce probably accounts for the majority of divorces among christians.

TK

[Guest]

TK,

You wrote:

"They realize that their divorces were not biblically valid, but divorcing their present spouse and returning to their former spouses with whom they were miserable is not an option."

But in your scenario, you also (earlier) said, "The spouses of both Man and Woman do not re-marry. "

In other words, you describe a situation where the married couple both have apparently-available ex-spouses, but something makes returning to their original spouses "out of the question."

What is that factor that removes the possibility of their returning to their legitimate spouses? Is it...

A) Their first spouses will not accept them back? If so, then it seems that all parties are free. The innocent (abandoned) spouses, because of their mates' adultery, and the adulterous spouses because their original spouses will not consider reconciliation; or

B) The presence of children and happiness in the present marriage? Many people are happy in sin, but are still called to repent and forsake their sin. Children born through an adulterous relationship do not by their birth cancel the binding nature of previously-contracted marriages; or

C) Is there some other factor that you are thinking of?

In any case, as I have said, I believe that where legitimate restoration of the first marriage is not possible, it is not required, and the parties may, under some circumstances, enjoy a second marriage legitimately. But it should not be considered impossible for reconciliation to occur in cases where it is not really impossible.


MLH--

I do not believe that becoming a Christian automatically cancels out legitimate commitments that were contracted prior to conversion (e.g., marriage vows, business contracts, debts, etc.). When one becomes a Christian, he/she repents of past sins and should consider whether there is any restitution waiting to be made. Outstanding debts and duties that were neglected before conversion are even more important to be kept once one is a Christian.

The people you are thinking of may be free from their past marriages for any of a number of reasons that would apply in any case, but I do not believe that merely by getting converted a person escapes their marriage obligations any more than they escape the duty to pay off their credit card debts.

[Guest]

Steve-

in response to your question (in response to mine) i was thinking more along the lines of choice "b" you listed above. let's pretend the abandoned spouses want to reconcile (or are at least open to the idea), but the spouses who divorced them simply do not wish to do so (lets say because they cannot bear the thought of leaving their current happy situation and returning to their former miserable situation).

what happens to the spouses who initiated the divorces?

thx,

TK

[Guest]

To ALL the young people that read this post, Think hard and pray alot
before getting married, your spouse can add alot of JOY or misery
to your life..Apparently, we cannot say, "oops" and start again.......