Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:48 am

Regarding the forced marriage discussion above...

Please note the difference between Exodus and Deuteronomy. In Exodus, we are dealing with seduction. Deuteronomy is dealing with seizure.

Another case to add to my file, RE: why I hold to the Wilderness Code (found in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers), but decline to canonize Deuteronomy.
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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steve
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by steve » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:38 am

Emmet wrote:
A modern view can find much in the Torah to be objectionable. But so what?
I appreciate this attitude. I found, in reading modern atheists, that they point out "politically incorrect" laws in the Old Testament as if their doing so provides ammunition against belief in God or in the Torah. They don't seem to realize that their modern objections are not anything demanded by the subsequent discovery of any facts in modern times, but are rather matters of mere subjective sentiment. Even if disdain for the biblical ethics is an extremely widespread sentiment in our day, it remains entirely subjective, and is not anything that scientific progress has demanded.

I do believe, though, that a more enlightened ethic is presented in the New Testament, than in the Old, concerning the equality of sexes.

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Ian
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by Ian » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:06 am

Emmet wrote:
A modern view can find much in the Torah to be objectionable. But so what?
It`s only important to me insofar as Jesus upheld it as the Word of God and as something to fulfil rather than cancel out.
That`s the only reason why the periodic apparent oddities therein bug me.

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:48 pm

steve wrote:
I do believe, though, that a more enlightened ethic is presented in the New Testament, than in the Old, concerning the equality of sexes.
How so?
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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steve
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by steve » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:04 pm

I believe that Paul's statements in 1 Cor.7:4 extend the same exclusive rights to women over their husbands' bodies that men already enjoyed over their wives' bodies.

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:13 pm

kaufmannphillips wrote:
A modern view can find much in the Torah to be objectionable. But so what?

Ian wrote:
It`s only important to me insofar as Jesus upheld it as the Word of God and as something to fulfil rather than cancel out.
That`s the only reason why the periodic apparent oddities therein bug me.
Jesus was not modern, either. He was a Jew of the late Second Temple era - which means he might have inherited certain ways of thinking about the sacred writings of his people. He was not necessarily correct; but then again, neither are modern thinkers necessarily correct when they perceive "oddities" in a premodern text.
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:55 pm

steve wrote:
I believe that Paul's statements in 1 Cor.7:4 extend the same exclusive rights to women over their husbands' bodies that men already enjoyed over their wives' bodies.
Your belief is not required by the text.

Verse 4 can be interpreted within the limited context of the preceding verse, where Paul is speaking of what each partner to a marriage owes one another (Gk. opheilw). As Paul construes it, each partner to a marriage has a claim on the body of their spouse. Given the immediate context, this refers to each partner being owed physical sexual relations.

But Paul is not necessarily articulating here the precise extent of each partner's claim upon the other; neither is he necessarily conferring "exclusive rights" upon either partner. His point may simply be that, in the case of marital sexual obligation, each partner holds a certain authority over the body of their spouse.
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steve
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by steve » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:02 pm

Maybe.

AVoice
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by AVoice » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:19 pm

There is a huge amount of scriptural evidence to show that marriage is sacred until death.
It is so saddening to see the departure from that truth to the heresy that Jesus allows divorce.
So in response to the question that is the OP of this thread, the answer is an absolute NO. Only death breaks the marriage bond. Any assumption that man may in fact put asunder what God has joined together is a very sad and frightenening heresy.
Frightening to think of the fate of those advocating divorce as if the NT allows hardness of heart.

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Michelle
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by Michelle » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:33 am

AVoice wrote:There is a huge amount of scriptural evidence to show that marriage is sacred until death.
Marriage is sacred. Why do you think God takes it so seriously?
It is so saddening to see the departure from that truth to the heresy that Jesus allows divorce.
So in response to the question that is the OP of this thread, the answer is an absolute NO. Only death breaks the marriage bond. Any assumption that man may in fact put asunder what God has joined together is a very sad and frightenening heresy.
Heresy? I don't understand what you mean by heresy.
Frightening to think of the fate of those advocating divorce as if the NT allows hardness of heart.
You switched from allow to advocate, which is a little unfair, yet I'm curious what fate you believe 'those' are facing. You also seem to know that 'those' have a mindset that the New Testament allows hardness of heart. What do you mean? Here is how what you said appears to me: Jesus said that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of men's hearts -- a concession to human sinfulness; if Jesus made any allowance for divorce, that allowance would also be due to the hardness of men's hearts and a concession to human sinfulness, and Jesus wouldn't do that. Is this what you mean?

AVoice, I hope you don't mind my questions. I'm not debating the merits of your position, although I'm following your discussion with mattrose and Homer very closely. My questions are solely out of curiosity. Thanks.

Michelle
Last edited by Michelle on Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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