Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

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__id_1384
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Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by __id_1384 » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:00 am

I have listened to and read Steve's lectures on remarriage and divorce and really enjoyed them but didn't find this particular objection addressed. It is for me a fairly convincing one so i look forward to hearing how others interpret it. Let's choose Lu 16.18 for starters.
Luk 16:18 KJV Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
I will paraphrase it to make my objection clear. Wicked man divorces innocent* wife and remarries. Jesus says that this man has now committed adultery. It is generally taught today that because the man has committed adultery (or fornication if you prefer) the innocent woman is now free to remarry if she wishes. However Jesus says that, even though adultery has occurred, the innocent woman will also be committing adultery if she remarries.

Why does adultery (and in this case abandonment as well) not terminate the marriage bond?

Looking forward to your comments
Andrew

* By innocent i mean not guilty of fornication or anything that would normally be accepted as grounds for divorce.
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Post by _foc » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:12 pm

Does adultery really break the marriage bond?
The answer is 'no' it doesnt 'break' the marriage bond (as in 'end' it).
It is absolutely a 'breach' of the marriage bond..an 'offense' against it....that under the old covenant was punishable by death (Deut 22 among others) and in this new covenant is apparently grounds for putting away a spouse.
However Jesus says that, even though adultery has occurred, the innocent woman will also be committing adultery if she remarries.
Exactly !

In the context Jesus is speaking in, putting away 'for EVERY cause', the Jews were throwing out a spouse for no just reason at all and apparently were swapping wives at will whenever the mood struck them.
Moses had dealt with it in the desert, then at the time of Christ the Hebrews had perverted even the regulation in Deut 24:1-4 that was an attempt to extirpate the problem into a 'commandment' so that they basically turned Moses into the scapegoat saying that HE had commanded that they divorce for these causes instead of his words simply being regulation trying to get control of the issue with this younger generation of Hebrews about the enter the promise land (Deut was given over ~40 days at the end of the 40 years in the desert after that rebellious generation had all but passed away).

Jesus is dealing with probably worse than Moses had with frivolous divorce...even His own disciples couldnt believe that they couldnt just cast out a wife for whatever reason they wanted.

In the Gospels Jesus is showing these Jews that even tho Moses had not assigned any 'sin' to this callous, hardhearted act of throwing out a wife...that they WERE committing adultery when they frivololously (for EVERY cause) throw out a wife and marry another. Our Lord shows the extent of the sin they are causing in committing this heinous crime against their covenant when they, for no cause, end a marriage.

:)
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Post by _foc » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:23 pm

Why does adultery (and in this case abandonment as well) not terminate the marriage bond?
Well firstly you dont seem to grasp that thru the whole bible that absense from the marriage with the intent to not be 'marriage' is pretty much what 'divorce' or 'putting away' is.
The divorce decree was was not added to legalize the matter before God but was a regulation by Moses (and therefore God) to try to extirpate this putting away for some ambiguous 'uncleaness'
http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... ?f=18&t=55

Secondly, while abandonment with the intent to end the marriage would classify as ending it (hence Pauls words to let the unbeliever leave)...adultery does not by its nature 'end' the marriage covenant, but is simply a breach/offense agaisnt it...otherwise if we compare it to the Hebrew offense against God, it means that the first time they sinned agaisnt God where it is called 'adultery' or even 'fornication' that that covenant would have immediately been 'ended'.
Thats not how it works where adultery is concerned.
Even with adultery being committed, there MUST be the intent to END the marriage on one or both parties (ie 'divorce' or 'putting away') otherwise they simply continue in the covenant.

It seems you are not understanding some of the basics from Gods whole word in the matter and that is causing you to draw erroneous conclusions.
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Post by _foc » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:32 pm

I hope you dont mind, arogers, that I responded to your questions.
I bookmarked this forum again and Im free most days to discuss this further with you if youd like.
Please feel free to check out the studies on our site if youd like.
I use a closed phpBB3 forum because its just easier and most people know how to use forum software (the search feature was the deciding factor)

Assembly Ministries MDR Studies

:)
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Post by __id_1384 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:25 am

Hi FOC. Thanks for your detailed responses. Can you tell me what you believe the situation is for the *innocent* woman in this scenario? Can she remarry with God's blessing or does He consider remarriage adultery?

The woman has been faithful to her husband and he has also been sexually faithful to her however he wants someone else so divorces her and marries another woman.

Thanks
Andrew
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Post by _foc » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:43 am

Hi arogers.
in reading over your question, I am hoping that this isnt a scenario where you are setting up the situation and then believe that you are going to then lead me down a trail that will end up forcing me to accept whatever it is you may believe.
Ive seen this question presented probably at least 500 times and its always the same answer.
agrogers wrote:Hi FOC. Thanks for your detailed responses. Can you tell me what you believe the situation is for the *innocent* woman in this scenario? Can she remarry with God's blessing or does He consider remarriage adultery?
If I may be frank and simply say what I believe on the matter without anyone taking offense, Id like to say that I believe there is a terrible, unscriptural teaching in the church that condemns the guilty to a lifetime of punishment where I dont believe Christ has done so.

As for both the innocent and the guilty, there is no condemnation on them if they end up being remarried.
The ideal situation is for them to reconcile to each other, but if that marriage is not reconcilable because one is refusing to go along....then the other, guilty or innocent, is absolutely free to remarry.

God is interested in a contrite heart...in sorrow for sin. He is not a legalist monster up there waiting to strike men down for a wrong they committed in the past.

Some here are failing to understand the point, in my opinion, concerning the teachings about marriage and divorce in scripture. The point is to save marriages, not create eunuchs.
The woman has been faithful to her husband and he has also been sexually faithful to her however he wants someone else so divorces her and marries another woman.

Thanks
Andrew
Yes she can remarry...ie she is 'letting the unbeliever leave. We can base whether or not someone is actually a believer only on their fruits. If its pumping out oranges, it sure aint no apple tree.
If this guy abandons the marriage for some 18 year old girl, based on his fruit, we have to assume that this is a case of an unbeliever abandoning his marriage.
And absolutely when he married this other woman he committed adultery against his first wife, giving her right to remarry by Christs clear exception.
Yes, she would be free to remarry.

And yes, I realize you are possibly setting up a situation where you think you will lead me thru a maze to your predetermined exit. At least thats what the intent has been on many other forums where this type of question is asked.
I assure you Im not going to cooperate by following the cheese trail....so if that is the case, you might want to abort at this point :)

God bless
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Re: Does adultery really break the marriage bond?

Post by _foc » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:23 am

Hi FOC. Thanks for your detailed responses. Can you tell me what you believe the situation is for the *innocent* woman in this scenario? Can she remarry with God's blessing or does He consider remarriage adultery?
The woman has been faithful to her husband and he has also been sexually faithful to her however he wants someone else so divorces her and marries another woman.
Thanks
However Jesus says that, even though adultery has occurred, the innocent woman will also be committing adultery if she remarries.
It doesnt say 'committing' adultery...it says 'commits adultery'....present indicative form which is the only way in the present form of the Greek to absolutely contain the action to the present since the present form is inherently linear in nature.

Committeth adultery” The Present Indicative deception

The writer could have used other ways to show an act with ongoing consequences...there are very easy ways to do that in the greek, yet for some reason they chose the one form of the present tense that is the ONLY form that would be used to show that the act was NOT 'ongoing'.

Why does adultery (and in this case abandonment as well) not terminate the marriage bond?
You have entirely misunderstood Jesus' intent there.

Because Moses had not actually assigned any crime or sin to this putting away for no just cause, the Jews in Jesus day believed that they were guiltless in putting away over anything they wanted to (whether they remarried or not).
He isnt defining marriage as UNconditional as you seem to believe but IS defining these hardhearted divorces as being sinful.

Jesus point is not to show that marriage lingers after divorce in any way at all, but is to show them that even tho they do put her away as Moses permitted, that this horrible practice of putting out a spouse for no just cause that had been with them since at least their time in the desert after escaping Egypt DID incur guilt and WAS indeed a sin...and their sin was affecting everyone in its path.

That is what Jesus is doing....showing men who believed themselves guiltless (as seemed to be a epidemic with this people) that they WERE guilty when they cast out a spouse unjustly and especially when they do it to take someone else.

Just as He also showed them just before His exception in Matt 5 that even if they looked on a woman lustfully they had already committed adultery in their heart...the point is exposing guilt where they believed there was none.

You seemed to have missed that if a man just wanted a new, younger wife, all he had to do was be a polygamist and just add this new woman to his harem. Even in the NT there is no outright prohibition or condemnation of taking multiple wives.

The real issue here isnt about taking a new bride because polygamy was practiced by some at that time and still is in this world today in some cultures.
It is the hardhearted throwing out of a wife who has done no wrong that is the core of this matter.
God hates putting away, remember ? That is a very key element to this entire topic...understanding that it is the putting away that He 'hateth'.

In that, this putting away a wife who has done no wrong, whether we remarry or not, is the very heart of this whole issue of divorce and remarriage.

The problem here is with not understanding the WHOLE council of Gods word in this matter and simply picking at a verse here and a passage there.

As I said somewhere here, the Hypercalvinist is quite adept at using a few very CLEAR passages to show that God is so sovereign that He literally foreordains EVERY sin man commits, then condemns that man for the sin that GOD basically forced him to do.
And even tho there are VERY clear passages that seem to back these claims (Romans 9 for instance..not to mention so many passages about things decided from the foundation of the world) few of us actually believe that God has foreordained that man sin AGAINST God Himself.

The same with this MDR matter.
Some take a few CLEAR scriptures to force a view from ONE side of the data to create an UNconditional marriage covenant.
But just like with the Hypercalvinist viewpoint, we must harmonize ALL of scripture to understand that Romans isnt about individual predestination..even tho it CLEARLY seems to show that it is in a couple places....but is directly about what has happened to the nation of Israel.

Doctrines that focus on part of the evidence without truly understanding the WHOLE so that ALL of the evidence is harmonized correctly will always be skewed and distorted because they will end up missing the point of many passages.
It happens with Romans 9 with the hypercalvinist....and it happens with things like 'committeth adultery' with anti-remarriagers.
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Post by _foc » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:29 pm

I'll check back arogers, to see if you wish to continue the discussion or not. If theres some policy on the forums here as some have about teaching contrary to the views of the ownership, we may have to finish this on my debate forum or elsewhere...I surely dont want to get anyone upset over the issue.

:)
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Post by _Allyn » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:59 pm

Has Jesus said "go and sin no more" or go and undo the adultry you have committed?
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Post by __id_1384 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:08 am

Hi FOC

Mate, you write so much that it is hard to take it all in and impossible for me to respond to it all. Sorry. So i will just grab that bit that i am working through.

The scenario I gave is, as best as i can tell, identical to the one described in Mat 5, Mat 19 and Luk 16. In those passages Jesus says clearly (i think) that the innocent woman, if she remarries is guilty of adultery and the person who marries her is guilty of adultery and the original husband is guilty of causing her to commit adultery.

But, if I understand what you have said, the innocent woman is perfectly free to remarry.

Why does there appear to be such a mismatch between what you are saying (the innocent woman is free to remarry) and what Jesus is saying (the innocent woman commits adultery if she remarries)?

Thanks
Andrew
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