Wives' submission to husbands

[Guest]

Hey SuperSola! I'm glad you came back. I was thinking about you just the other day, wondering if you were going to come back. I hope things are going well for you.

About that study... I was astounded by the conclusion as well. I looked into the study and I believe that the authors have a warped view of marriage. They seem to define "traditional" marriage as a tyrant and his slave. I think the researchers miss the point. Also, although I didn't get far enough into the study to find out how they determined what constitutes a "happy marriage," I think the question itself reveals a presumption that marriage is meant to make people happy.

Did you also look into the study and reject it, or do you reject all studies of this type?

Hey Dexter! Nice to meet you. I think this issue can be pretty emotional for people, therefore it involves a lot of words. Where do you fall on this one?

[Guest]

Thanks Michelle. I'm ve5ry busy, and like I said on another thread, I won't post if I can't do the subject matter justice, other that short and to the point. I do want to re-visit some topics, but can't right now. God bless you.

[Guest]

Wives submit to your own husband, as to the Lord.
Just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husband in everything......

Christ is not inferior to the Father so wives are equal to their own husband. In a marriage we have different roles. A wife's voluntary submission arises out of her own submission to the Lord.

Husbands, love your wife, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for her,,,,Husbands ought to love their wife as their own body.

Paul calls on husbands to love self-sacrifically, to show Christ's love.
The kind of love that is willing to lay down one's life for another, even if that means suffering.

The two shall become one flesh...If a man sees that his wife is truly his own flesh, he will treat her with love and care...

In return God places in a woman's heart to receive that love and in return
wants to respect and please her husband.

Also, a man lives with her in an "understanding" way as the weaker vessel. A man should never be condescending with her making fun
of her weakness and treating her disrespectfully of which I have seen
many times. A womans natural response is to submit then.

Be ye kind one to another!

[Guest]

Very nicely put, MLH.

I just want to clear up one little thing:

Also, a man lives with her in an "understanding" way as the weaker vessel. A man should never be condescending with her making fun
of her weakness and treating her disrespectfully of which I have seen
many times. A womans natural response is to submit then.

I'm pretty sure you mean that a for a woman it's natural to submit when a husband is following the first sentence, not the second. At least that's my experience.

[Guest]

Yes

[Guest]

The Bible teaches the full equality of men and women in Creation and in Redemption (Gen 1:26-28, 2:23, 5:1-2; 1Cor 11:11-12; Gal 3:13, 28, 5:1).
The Bible teaches that God has revealed Himself in the totality of Scripture, the authoritative Word of God (Matt 5:18; John 10:35; 2Tim 3:16; 2Peter 1:20-21). We believe that Scripture is to be interpreted holistically and thematically. We also recognize the necessity of making a distinction between inspiration and interpretation: inspiration relates to the divine impulse and control whereby the whole canonical Scripture is the Word of God; interpretation relates to the human activity whereby we seek to apprehend revealed truth in harmony with the totality of Scripture and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. To be truly biblical, Christians must continually examine their faith and practice under the searchlight of Scripture.
Biblical Truths
Creation
1. The Bible teaches that both man and woman were created in God's image, had a direct relationship with God, and shared jointly the responsibilities of bearing and rearing children and having dominion over the created order (Gen 1:26-28).
2. The Bible teaches that woman and man were created for full and equal partnership. The word "helper" (ezer), used to designate woman in Genesis 2:18, refers to God in most instances of Old Testament usage (e.g. 1Sam 7:12; Ps 121:1-2). Consequently the word conveys no implication whatsoever of female subordination or inferiority.
3. The Bible teaches that the forming of woman from man demonstrates the fundamental unity and equality of human beings (Gen 2:21-23). In Genesis 2:18, 20 the word "suitable" (kenegdo) denotes equality and adequacy.
4. The Bible teaches that man and woman were co-participants in the Fall: Adam was no less culpable than Eve (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:12-21; 1Cor 15:21-22).
5. The Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order. Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a prescription of God's ideal order.
Redemption
6. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ came to redeem women as well as men. Through faith in Christ we all become children of God, one in Christ, and heirs to the blessings of salvation without reference to racial, social, or gender distinctives (John 1:12-13; Rom 8:14-17; 2Cor 5:17; Gal 3:26-28).
Community
7. The Bible teaches that at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came on men and women alike. Without distinction, the Holy Spirit indwells women and men, and sovereignly distributes gifts without preference as to gender (Acts 2:1-21; 1Cor 12:7, 11, 14:31).
8. The Bible teaches that both women and men are called to develop their spiritual gifts and to use them as stewards of the grace of God (1Peter 4:10-11). Both men and women are divinely gifted and empowered to minister to the whole Body of Christ, under His authority (Acts 1:14, 18:26, 21:9; Rom 16:1-7, 12-13, 15; Phil 4:2-3; Col 4:15; see also Mark 15:40-41, 16:1-7; Luke 8:1-3; John 20:17-18; compare also Old Testament examples: Judges 4:4-14, 5:7; 2Chron 34:22-28; Prov 31:30-31; Micah 6:4).
9. The Bible teaches that, in the New Testament economy, women as well as men exercise the prophetic, priestly and royal functions (Acts 2:17-18, 21:9; 1Cor 11:5; 1Peter 2:9-10; Rev 1:6, 5:10). Therefore, the few isolated texts that appear to restrict the full redemptive freedom of women must not be interpreted simplistically and in contradiction to the rest of Scripture, but their interpretation must take into account their relation to the broader teaching of Scripture and their total context (1Cor 11:2-16, 14:33-36; 1Tim 2:9-15).
10. The Bible defines the function of leadership as the empowerment of others for service rather than as the exercise of power over them (Matt 20:25-28, 23:8; Mark 10:42-45; John 13:13-17; Gal 5:13; 1Peter 5:2-3).
Family
11. The Bible teaches that husbands and wives are heirs together of the grace of life and that they are bound together in a relationship of mutual submission and responsibility (1Cor 7:3-5; Eph 5:21; 1Peter 3:1-7; Gen 21:12). The husband's function as "head" (kephale) is to be understood as self-giving love and service within this relationship of mutual submission (Eph 5:21-33; Col 3:19; 1Peter 3:7).
12. The Bible teaches that both mothers and fathers are to exercise leadership in the nurture, training, discipline and teaching of their children (Exod 20:12; Lev 19:3; Deut 6:6-9, 21:18-21, 27:16; Prov 1:8, 6:20; Eph 6:1-4; Col 3:20; 2Tim 1:5; see also Luke 2:51).
8)

[Guest]

4. The Bible teaches that man and woman were co-participants in the Fall: Adam was no less culpable than Eve (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:12-21; 1Cor 15:21-22).

A bit of a misstatement here. See 1 Timothy 2:14. Adam was not deceived, Eve was. Adam's sin was the greater, IMHO, because he knew better.

Also Galatians 3:28 should not be used as support for an egalitarian understanding of the roles of men and women. In the context, Paul speaks of the inheritance we have, 3:18, and sonship, 3:7, through which we are blessed. In the culture of the time Paul wrote, except under unusual circumstances, women could not inherit anything. To speak of an inheritance would be of no comfort to them. Paul assures both men and women that they all have rights to an inheritance through faith as "sons", 3:26, and all in Christ are heirs, 3:29.

I believe the various texts regarding the roles of men and women can only be harmonized by a complimentarian understanding.

[Guest]

A bit of a misstatement here. See 1 Timothy 2:14. Adam was not deceived, Eve was. Adam's sin was the greater, IMHO, because he knew better.

This reminds me of what my mother used to say, Homer. "Yes, Eve was deceived. Adam went into it with open eyes."

But when we read the passage in context, it is obvious that Paul was assuming that Eve's being deceived made her more culpable, and for that reason, and for the fact that Adam was formed first, women are to learn in silence and not to teach men or have authority over them.

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
I Timothy 2:11-14 RSV

[Guest]

Paidion,

Would it be more correct to say Eve was more "vulnerable" in some way (being deceived)?

[Guest]

Paidion,

Would it be more correct to say Eve was more "vulnerable" in some way (being deceived)?

That's a good point, Homer; is one culpable for being deceived?