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Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Postby morbo3000 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:23 pm

I'm taking the financial peace class at my church. I've got some financial issues that I don't have the wisdom. Student loans especially.

Hearing him constantly say that the bible has gods principles for money just grates on me.

I'm sure some of you have been around the materials. Thoughts?

What do you think gods principles for money are from the bible. I bet they are way different than Ramsey's

You can pray that I keep my mouth shut. :)


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Re: Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Postby DeGraff » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:51 pm

I've been through Financial Peace. It motivated my wife and I pay off our credit cards, which is a relief.

My only knocks are 1) I feel like I'm watching a less funny Blue Collar Comedy Tour at times, and 2) he buys so much into the American dream of richer is better, and success = financial blessings. His ultimate goal is for you to save so you can retire early, travel and live on in high style. (Oh, and of course tithe 10% minimum to support God's work.)

I have no doubt his system works... for now.With zero interest policy, retirement savings have all gone to the stock market for any kind of yield. We could be one market crash away from a lot of people losing their most of their savings. It's hard to call something Bible-based that depends on stock markets going up indefinitely.
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Re: Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Postby thrombomodulin » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:15 pm

DeGraff wrote:I have no doubt his system works... for now.With zero interest policy, retirement savings have all gone to the stock market for any kind of yield. We could be one market crash away from a lot of people losing their most of their savings. It's hard to call something Bible-based that depends on stock markets going up indefinitely.


This is a significant problem. The policy of the central bank has been to keep interest rates near zero, which destroys a valuable market price - the rate of interest. Those who adhere to the Austrian school of economics make an argument that the effects of this policy lead to misallocations of resources which harms everyone including, and perhaps especially the poor. Jorg Guido Hulsmann has a very good book on this entitled "the ethics of money production". I've not been through Dave Ramsey's class, so I don't know what approach he may use to support his views. I don't, however, think it is fair to criticize him on the basis that it is difficult to find a return on savings (the stock market being perhaps the only option). Savings in and of itself may well be a good thing, we just happen to live point in time and history where the State's policy is to punish those who save and to reward indebtedness. Had political policy been to not interfere with the market price, then surely better options for savings would exist.
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Re: Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Postby DeGraff » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:54 pm

You are right. It is wise and scriptural to save and not be a burden on others at the end of life. Ramsey can't be faulted for the current financial situation. However when he talks about retirement, he uses numbers like 10% return on savings. That may have been possible in the 80s, but where do you go in 2016 to make that happen?

My bigger problem is the promise of retiring as early as possible so you can fully enjoy the American dream. I'm sure we'd all like to spend our final 30 years taking cruises, golfing, even having a second home to get away to, etc. That may have been possible for the generation before us, but it's not realistic now. I don't remember Ramsey mentioning saving in order to be free to serve via ministry or missions after retirement.
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Re: Gods biblical principles on money. Dave Ramsey.

Postby steve » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:19 pm

This has also been my concern with Dave Ramsey. While I like his emphasis on becoming and living debt-free, and believe he knows 1,000% more than I do about handling money (he has had more to handle, so he has had to learn things I would have no use for), I do not think that pursuing the American Dream has a biblical basis. I have always been content with what I had. I lived in genuine poverty for decades—a condition to which I never objected, and in which I never lacked. When I married Dayna, she already had a house (a nicer house than I had ever lived in before), so I am pretty comfortable, for the time being. I took over the mortgage payments when we got married, and, if anything would happen to her, she knows what would happen to the house.

Today, I have more than at any earlier time in my life, but it has allowed me to increase my standard of giving, as well as my standard of living. In fact, my present percentage of giving (which has continually increased regularly over the years), currently leaves me, most months, with nothing left over after paying for housing, food and utilities. I never plan to retire, and have laid nothing up for such a contingency. I don't think Dave Ramsey would feel too good about my situation. Since I was 17 (I am now almost 63), I have trusted the Lord for my provisions, and have never been disappointed.

While I don't think everyone is called to live as I do, I also don't think Christians are encouraged in scripture to seek comfort or affluence. God gives some Christians affluence, but it seems to me that this is primarily because they have been gifted for a ministry of giving. Here is where you find the biblical principles on money: Matthew 6:19-34 and 1 Timothy 6:6-11,17-19. I don't find many modern Christians consulting these passages in their financial decision-making, but the principles will still be valid so long as there are poor people, so long as there is a God, and so long as He has a kingdom to be promoted.
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