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An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwilkins » Sat May 13, 2017 5:10 pm

MacArthur is a perfect example of someone with tremendous public speaking ability, but who is not analytically smart enough to realize that he's teaching nonsense.

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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Homer » Sat May 13, 2017 5:34 pm

Doug wrote:

MacArthur is a perfect example of someone with tremendous public speaking ability, but who is not analytically smart enough to realize that he's teaching nonsense.

And so is John Piper. I just picked up a new book, Evangelical Dictionary of Theology for $2.49 at my favorite bookstore, (St. Vincent DePaul thrift store). I'm out of bookshelf space so I told LOML I will "thin the herd" a bit to make room. So first to go is a pristine copy on John Piper's "What Jesus Demands of the World". I had read the book until I ran into the nonsense Doug speaks of. Piper says the world must repent believe in Jesus; Jesus demands this of them. Yet this is impossible, according to the Calvinist (Piper) unless God first regenerates them. So, as is my habit, at the point of nonsense I somehow lost interest in the book.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby darinhouston » Fri May 26, 2017 10:40 pm

jasonmodar wrote:I agree with what I think is the spirit of Doug's comment. I can think of plenty of mainstream non-Calvinist teachers, preachers, authors, etc.

Steve Gregg, Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig, NT Wright, Bruxy Cavey, Greg Boyd, Frank Turek, Alister McGrath, John Lennox, CS Lewis (Yes he's dead but his impact on Christianity is still reverberating). That just off the top of my head.


I'm not sure you can call NT Wright non-Calvinist .


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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby jasonmodar » Sun May 28, 2017 12:02 am

darinhouston wrote: I'm not sure you can call NT Wright non-Calvinist.


I would confidently assert he is. But I've been wrong before.

What makes you unsure?
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby darinhouston » Mon May 29, 2017 2:11 pm

jasonmodar wrote:
darinhouston wrote: I'm not sure you can call NT Wright non-Calvinist.


I would confidently assert he is. But I've been wrong before.

What makes you unsure?


He tries to avoid labels and terms that others can use to label him. In particular, Calvinists don't like his use of the term "justification." But, he does seem to have a fairly "traditional" calvinistic view of predestination and order of salvation. I seem to recall his comments on eternal security to be fairly calvinistic.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Si » Wed May 31, 2017 10:00 am

Piper and MacArthur are both intelligent, Godly men, and Calvinism is a very highly developed, coherent system. So are Dispensationalism and Catholicism for that matter. Just because you disagree with a theological system on fundamental doctrines or interpretations of key passages, doesn't mean that these systems are nonsense or that the people who teach them are not smart.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Singalphile » Wed May 31, 2017 7:09 pm

Si wrote:Piper and MacArthur are both intelligent, Godly men, and Calvinism is a very highly developed, coherent system. So are Dispensationalism and Catholicism for that matter. Just because you disagree with a theological system on fundamental doctrines or interpretations of key passages, doesn't mean that these systems are nonsense or that the people who teach them are not smart.


I strongly agree and applaud your sentiment, but I often wonder if any of these men (all the people mentioned in this thread) are godly men. Maybe they are - I would assume so - or maybe they're not, but how would I know?

In relation to the original post, I'd argue that just about the last thing that our kingdom needs in the 21st century is more theologians and preachers, Arminian or not.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby jasonmodar » Wed May 31, 2017 7:44 pm

darinhouston wrote:
jasonmodar wrote:
darinhouston wrote: I'm not sure you can call NT Wright non-Calvinist.


I would confidently assert he is. But I've been wrong before.

What makes you unsure?


He tries to avoid labels and terms that others can use to label him. In particular, Calvinists don't like his use of the term "justification." But, he does seem to have a fairly "traditional" calvinistic view of predestination and order of salvation. I seem to recall his comments on eternal security to be fairly calvinistic.


He's certainly been at odds with John Piper and James White in regards to your comment about justification. I'd reference the following video as one reason I place Wright in the non-Calvinist camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKwIijhZW-M

I'm not interested in dying on this hill, however. Just wanted to share my reasoning and reference.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwight92070 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:36 pm

Jasonmodar,

Of the 10 names you listed, I know only Gregg, Zacharias, and Lewis. Although I greatly admire Steve Gregg, I don't think he enjoys the notoriety of the other two. The other 7 are not well known in my book, but that's just me.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwight92070 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:53 pm

In relation to the original post, I'd argue that just about the last thing that our kingdom needs in the 21st century is more theologians and preachers, Arminian or not.[/quote]

Dwight speaking: Steve has done such a good job of exposing the falsehoods and/or misinterpretations of both Calvinism and Dispensationalism, and Catholicism for that matter. I would rejoice if there were multitudes of preachers and theologians who would do the same to help the church be rid of false teachings and misinterpretations. These teachings distort our image and understanding of God. By the way, when you say "our kingdom", that seems to be a strange way of referring to the body of Christ. I hope you meant to say "The kingdom of God".
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