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An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwight92070 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:59 pm

I'm not sure, I may have used the word "notoriety" wrongly, as if to say that Zacharias and Lewis were bad people. I simply meant that they are more well known than Steve.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Singalphile » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:45 pm

dwight92070 wrote:.... By the way, when you say "our kingdom", that seems to be a strange way of referring to the body of Christ. I hope you meant to say "The kingdom of God".


Yes. That's all I meant. The kingdom of God, the kingdom to which we belong, "our kingdom".
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby jasonmodar » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:37 pm

dwight92070 wrote: Of the 10 names you listed, I know only Gregg, Zacharias, and Lewis.

The other 7 are not well known in my book, but that's just me.


I'd encourage you to check them out, then. Particularly NT Wright and Frank Turek. Wright is more of a teacher/theologian and Turek is an apologist who travels to colleges (like Zacharias).

Although I greatly admire Steve Gregg, I don't think he enjoys the notoriety of the other two.


Agreed. However, his skill as a teacher and righteous life put him on par with any list of biblical teachers and thinkers.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Si » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:03 pm

dwight92070 wrote:Steve has done such a good job of exposing the falsehoods and/or misinterpretations of both Calvinism and Dispensationalism, and Catholicism for that matter. I would rejoice if there were multitudes of preachers and theologians who would do the same to help the church be rid of false teachings and misinterpretations. These teachings distort our image and understanding of God.


Brother, although I understand your frustrations, I have to respectfully disagree. As we speak, there are multitudes of Dispensationalists, Calvinists and Catholics who are doing their utmost to discredit theological systems and denominations that they disagree with, including yours and mine. I'm honestly tired of the denominational bickering, especially when it comes down to difficult theological matters that Christians have never been in agreement on.

Maybe I've been understanding Steve wrong, but it seems to me that while he has his views on theology and is not afraid to state them, his focus is much more on Christian living, and giving to the poor, and submitting yourself to the Lordship of Christ. Arminians, Dispensationalists, Calvinists, and Catholics are all capable of living such lives, even if they have their differences or errors in theology.

Personally speaking, I will rejoice when the day comes that a Catholic, a Calvinist, and Arminian, and a Dispensationalist can join in worship together and share communion with one another and call one another brothers, without letting their traditions and their church leadership keep them apart, and set the theological battle aside. If we see our role in the body of Christ to war against our brothers and defeat their theology that we don't like, I think we will continue to fragment and divide.

Can't we just acknowledge that, while accepting the authority of Scripture, that our theological systems are not Scripture, but man-made systems to aid in scriptural understanding? Being made by men, are they not open to error? As long as we are in these aging bodies and decaying minds we inhabit, we are going to make mistakes and we are going to misinterpret. We will all be on the same page theologically in the eternal state, but until we get there, can't we just accept our systems as systems, and not divide over them, as long as one submits to the Lordship of Christ, and obeys him? That's what makes a Christian.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Singalphile » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:15 pm

I couldn't agree more, Si. I wish we could take just half the time and resources we spend on talking about each other and debating among ourselves and writing 1,000's upon 1,000 of pages and posts about theology, and turn that towards caring for the needy, preaching the gospel to non-Christians, and debating the atheists and other anti-Christian ideologies. We could really turn things around in our culture if we did that, I reckon. One can dream!
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwight92070 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 am

Singalphile wrote:I couldn't agree more, Si. I wish we could take just half the time and resources we spend on talking about each other and debating among ourselves and writing 1,000's upon 1,000 of pages and posts about theology, and turn that towards caring for the needy, preaching the gospel to non-Christians, and debating the atheists and other anti-Christian ideologies. We could really turn things around in our culture if we did that, I reckon. One can dream!


Dwight speaking: The way I see it, our theology determines who we are. You can't separate our doctrine from our Christian walk. "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."
"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." So who do we teach, reprove, correct and train? Non Christians? Maybe to an extent, but primarily other Christians. Our outreach to unbelievers is only possible and greatly enhanced when we are first equipped. Our problem in the body of Christ is not that we are focused on theology too much, but that we are not willing to be taught, reproved, corrected and trained. Unless that happens, worshipping God together, helping the poor and preaching the gospel to non-Christians will be greatly hindered or impossible.
The fact that we honestly disagree with another believer should not hinder our unity. But if we are unteachable (pride), that does hinder our unity. We should be willing to hear any believer's opinion, and consider it, even though we may not reach the same conclusion that he did.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby dwight92070 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:38 am

Si,
You hit the nail right on the head. You said that there are multitudes of Calvinists, Catholics and Dispensationalists who are doing their best to discredit theological systems of other believers. So who are the guilty parties here? It is the unteachable Calvinists, Catholics, and Dispensationalists, who proudly refuse correction, who are dividing the body of Christ. Am I saying that all Calvinists, Catholics, and Dispensationalists are proud and unteachable? Of course not. If they are not, but they sincerely disagree with those of us on the other side of these issues, at least they are honest enough to check things out.
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Singalphile » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:34 am

dwight92070 wrote:Our problem in the body of Christ is not that we are focused on theology too much, ....

I think it is a problem (if by "theology", we mean the various -isms that draw the most interest and conflict, some of which you mentioned). I have yet to see biblical evidence that God cares about theological opinions of that sort, and I see no biblical evidence that I will be rewarded or punished for the opinions that I have about such things.

Training and equipping for good works? Yes. Training and equipping to pass a theology exam? No. Our attitude and behavior towards others determines who we are and what we will be, I think, regardless of our opinions about Arminianism, time, hell, the age of Earth, eschatology, etc. Those systems are usually distractions and inherently hairetikos ("heretical" in the New Testament Greek sense = sectarian/divisive), I think.

dwight92070 wrote:The fact that we honestly disagree with another believer should not hinder our unity.

Agreed.

Sorry for off topic. I've started threads along these lines, but they've not drawn interest. This will be my last word here.

Thank you.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby Si » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 pm

Singalphile and Dwight (and anyone else interested)

So as to not take over this thread with a discussion about denominations, I started a new thread called "Denominations and Divisions in the Church" in the Denominations forum here:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=5655
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Re: An Arminian Piper / Driscoll / Sproul / Keller?

Postby darinhouston » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:06 am

Preachers like Charles Stanley come to mind -- quite well known in their day, and non-Calvinist, but haven't been "rock star" popular because Arminians tend (to my mind) to be more humble and (at least to today's generation) boring. They tend to focus on the applicable word and on holiness and you don't tend to see them in dogmatic rants or frothing judgmental tirades. So, they don't tend to have the same "blood sport" following. Just my own observation.

We tend to listen to them in our cars or living rooms, and don't tend to build podcasts or youtube channels around them or their "movements."
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