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When was the Trinity revealed?

When was the Trinity revealed?

Postby 21centpilgrim » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:26 am

At what point did the Trinity come to be known?
It appears not to be until 325AD?
If such a vital doctrine was made known and proclaimed earlier, why then no objection by Jewish converts? There certainly was over gentile believers not having to follow Moses.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.
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Re: When was the Trinity revealed?

Postby mattrose » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:51 am

Well Paul was pretty upset about the reverence being shown to Jesus
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Re: When was the Trinity revealed?

Postby Singalphile » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:56 pm

Some of Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho is interesting. Trypho was a non-Christian Jewish man in the mid-2nd century. There are sections that touch on the divinity of Jesus, around chapter LV (55), at least. Trypho did object to it, although I'm not sure exactly why. I've not read most of it. (I don't know if there's any discussion of the Holy Spirit.)

It seems to me that the divinity and unity of the Father (1) and Holy Spirit (2) was probably always recognized, and Jesus (3) was revealed as the Son of God, who was God, very early after the resurrection. So in that sense, the 3 ("the trinity") were revealed very early. The NT itself mentions those three together a number of times. Trinitarianism, on the other hand, wasn't formalized until hundreds of years later, as I understand it, like you said.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23
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Re: When was the Trinity revealed?

Postby Paidion » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:43 pm

Singalphile wrote:Some of Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho is interesting. Trypho was a non-Christian Jewish man in the mid-2nd century. There are sections that touch on the divinity of Jesus, around chapter LV (55), at least. Trypho did object to it, although I'm not sure exactly why. I've not read most of it. (I don't know if there's any discussion of the Holy Spirit.)


Okay, I said I wasn't coming back to post. However, in coming back to see what people were writing, I noticed this post of Singalphile's. So I will revise what I said. Though I will never discuss or argue anything since I quit the forum, I will occasionally post in order to provide information.

Singalphile, I have read the Dialogue with Trypho several times, and one part of the discussion deals with the Holy Spirit. Both Justin and Trypho spoke of the Holy Spirit. Certainly Trypho, a Jew, when using the term “Holy Spirit” did not have in mind another divine Person. For He believed in a single divine Person only, namely “Yahweh”. At no time did Justin suggest that the Holy Spirit was a third divine Individual. Indeed, at one point, he asked Trypho an amazing question:

“Do you think that any other one is said to be worthy of worship and called Lord and God in the scriptures, except the Maker of all, and Messiah, who by so many scriptures was proved to you to have become man?”


And Trypho replied:
“How can we admit this, when we have instituted so great an inquiry as to whether there is any other than the Father alone?”—Dialogue With Trypho Ch LXVII


If Justin had been a Trinitarian, this would have been the perfect occasion for Justin to have introduced the Holy Spirit as a third divine Individual. But he didn’t. He just said the following:

“I must ask you this also, that I may know whether or not you are of a different opinion from that which you admitted some time ago.”


Justin sometimes referred to the Holy Spirit as “speaking from the Person of the Father” and at other times as “speaking from the Person of the Son.” This led me to think that perhaps the Holy Spirit is the very Persons of the Father and the Son, extending throughout the world, and speaking to and through God's people.
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Re: When was the Trinity revealed?

Postby 21centpilgrim » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:15 pm

mattrose wrote:Well Paul was pretty upset about the reverence being shown to Jesus


Yes, they were proclaiming Jesus to be the Christ/Messiah, no other record otherwise. It would be sufficient enough for persecution. Indeed look at Stephen's message that Paul was present at and was in agreement with the crowd that stoned Stephen to death.

Stephen pronounced Christ to be the promised prophet like Moses, the promised Righteous One, the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God. Now there is reverence shown to the Messiah, that does not equal reverence shown as 'God the Son'.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.
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