Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

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morbo3000
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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by morbo3000 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:41 pm

Jose wrote:
morbo3000 wrote:It is an unnatural reading of Genesis 1:26 to try and see monotheism or trinitarianism in it. The text accurately reflects ancient understandings of God that pre-date Israel's monotheism. The natural reading only becomes a source of hand-wringing because it apparently contradicts those later theologies.

This does not mean there are more than one gods. Nor that the trinity is false. Just that we shouldn't try to make texts say something they don't.
Hi morbo3000,

You've given your opinion of what we shouldn't try to make it say, do you have an opinion of what the natural reading might be?
Was Jesus affirming something other than monotheism when He said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female" (Matt 19:4). "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." (Gen 1:27)

Thanks, Jose
The natural reading is plural. This could mean divine council, or El+Asherah, or a pantheon, or Trinity, or pre-existent Jesus+YHWH, or anything. Those are all conjecture. All we have to go on is textual and archaeological research of ancient egypt and canaanite religions to understand that text in its context. But the text itself is plural. And that is problematic. Any attempts to reconcile that are theological, not textual/historical.

I believe the evidence points to the author of Genesis being henotheistic. As the writing of the Old Testament progresses, it gets increasingly monotheistic.
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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by Jose » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:33 pm

morbo3000 wrote:I believe the evidence points to the author of Genesis being henotheistic. As the writing of the Old Testament progresses, it gets increasingly monotheistic.
Okay, I understand what you're saying, thanks. Do you think then, that God actually said "let us", or was that simply a projection of the author's polytheism, or something else? If in fact the writer was a henotheist, what effect, if any, does it have on inspiration?

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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:35 am

Jose wrote:
morbo3000 wrote:I believe the evidence points to the author of Genesis being henotheistic. As the writing of the Old Testament progresses, it gets increasingly monotheistic.
Okay, I understand what you're saying, thanks. Do you think then, that God actually said "let us", or was that simply a projection of the author's polytheism, or something else? If in fact the writer was a henotheist, what effect, if any, does it have on inspiration?
I think it was a projection.

I'm a progressive, both theologically and as a Christian. I believe the farther back in time we get, the more difficult it is to say "I know." And I also think textual and archaeological studies should be given even weight in understanding ancient texts, even if it threatens inspiration.

As such, Genesis is pre-history and has parallels with other pre-history of its time. I don't think it is literal.

That being said, I could be wrong.
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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by Homer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:22 am

Morbo wrote:
As such, Genesis is pre-history and has parallels with other pre-history of its time. I don't think it is literal
.

So do you believe there was "first Adam"?

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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:44 am

I did.

But this is a problem.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... ladam.html

And by problem, I mean problem. This research didn't set out to undermine Adam and Eve. But its results wreak havoc on Pauline theology. Jesus not so much. I don't have my bearings yet. But I trust the geneticists on the projects (also the DNA Eve project.)
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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by Jose » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:17 pm

morbo3000 wrote:This research didn't set out to undermine Adam and Eve. But its results wreak havoc on Pauline theology. Jesus not so much.
Unfortunately, the article can't be read in its entirety without a subscription, but it seems that many believers are heading in the direction of Darwinian or theistic evolution.

I'm not what sure what you meant by "Jesus not so much" but that seems to imply that some things he said can be invalidated by evidence. Also, I would imagine that the genealogies in the Gospels could be discounted, which would then cast doubt on the Gospels themselves, wouldn't it? Does your trust in the geneticists cause you to distrust the Gospels?

Sincerely, Jose

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Re: Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:22 pm

I moved my part of this about the historical adam, etc. to this thread since it diverged from ____theism(s)


http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5050
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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