Maybe this one belongs under the Movies section.
I'm very unread when it comes to issues surrounding the DaVinci Code by Dan Brown. I'd like to know more about the whole thing. The movie is supposed to be released on May 19, 2006 starring Tom Hanks. Dr. Erwin Lutzer has come out with a resource to refute it. Does anyone know about this resource? It sounds pretty reliable and R.C. Sproul had good things to say about it.
http://www.davincideception.com/main.htm
Dr. Lutzer is a Bible teacher and pastor of Moody Church in Chicago. This probably means he is a dispensationalist, but I realize the issue isn't eschatology but the canon of Scripture.
Any comments?
The DaVinci Code
The DaVinci Code
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Lotta Luv,
john b
john b
I read the DaVinci Code and had to hold my nose all the way through. I don't generally read fiction, but this book is so influential in the impact it has on how our culture is going to view Jesus that I thought I had no choice. I will be writing and posting a critique of the book on my website well before the movie is released. I believe that Lutzer (though I have not yet read his critique) is a good preacher and that he will have done a good job analyzing the book.
In short, though the story is fictional, the book claims to be based upon "facts" known to all real scholars. Among these "facts" are the following:
Jesus never believed or claimed that He was divine;
Jesus was essentially a Gnostic and a feminist, who worshipped the goddess of "the divine feminine,"
Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, and they had a daughter together;
Mary was appointed by Jesus to take over the lead of the church after His death, but Peter and the male apostles were jealous and tried to get rid of her;
Mary and the daughter fled to Europe, where her daughter eventually married and had children from whom French royalty descended;
The institutional church (because of its patriarchal bias) has tried to suppress these truths, and for that purpose has edited the Bible so as to omit many valid [Gnostic] "gospels" that revealed these "facts;"
There is an ancient society, going back to the Knights Templar, called "The Priory of Sion" that is charged with the keeping of these secrets. They have left clues of these secret truths everywhere through Masonic symbolism;
Leonardo DaVinci was one of the famous people who was in the Priory of Sion, and he left clues about these things in his paintings—especially "The Last Supper," where the character commonly supposed to be John is actually a woman—Mary Magdalene—sitting at Jesus' right hand.
The book is about a professor who begins to unravel this mystery, and almost gets himself killed in the process.
The problem with this is that these "facts" are fabrications. None of them are believed by most scholars, and some of them are not believed by any scholars at all. Yet the unsuspecting reader, who has little access to the historical facts, is assured by Dan Brown that these things are indisputably true and have long been well-known in certain academic circles. However, they have been suppressed by the religious establishment.
The book is indeed a deception and many good critiques (some of them book-length) are now in print documenting the historical and polemical errors of the novel. Of course, Dan Brown does not retract anything he has misrepresented. Why should he? Most people will never read his critics (they aren't New York Times best-sellers). He has made millions on the deception so far, and controversy will only increase box-office sales when the movie comes out.
As I said, I hope to write my own detailed analysis soon, but the ones already in print are often quite good, if people will get a chance to read them.
In short, though the story is fictional, the book claims to be based upon "facts" known to all real scholars. Among these "facts" are the following:
Jesus never believed or claimed that He was divine;
Jesus was essentially a Gnostic and a feminist, who worshipped the goddess of "the divine feminine,"
Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, and they had a daughter together;
Mary was appointed by Jesus to take over the lead of the church after His death, but Peter and the male apostles were jealous and tried to get rid of her;
Mary and the daughter fled to Europe, where her daughter eventually married and had children from whom French royalty descended;
The institutional church (because of its patriarchal bias) has tried to suppress these truths, and for that purpose has edited the Bible so as to omit many valid [Gnostic] "gospels" that revealed these "facts;"
There is an ancient society, going back to the Knights Templar, called "The Priory of Sion" that is charged with the keeping of these secrets. They have left clues of these secret truths everywhere through Masonic symbolism;
Leonardo DaVinci was one of the famous people who was in the Priory of Sion, and he left clues about these things in his paintings—especially "The Last Supper," where the character commonly supposed to be John is actually a woman—Mary Magdalene—sitting at Jesus' right hand.
The book is about a professor who begins to unravel this mystery, and almost gets himself killed in the process.
The problem with this is that these "facts" are fabrications. None of them are believed by most scholars, and some of them are not believed by any scholars at all. Yet the unsuspecting reader, who has little access to the historical facts, is assured by Dan Brown that these things are indisputably true and have long been well-known in certain academic circles. However, they have been suppressed by the religious establishment.
The book is indeed a deception and many good critiques (some of them book-length) are now in print documenting the historical and polemical errors of the novel. Of course, Dan Brown does not retract anything he has misrepresented. Why should he? Most people will never read his critics (they aren't New York Times best-sellers). He has made millions on the deception so far, and controversy will only increase box-office sales when the movie comes out.
As I said, I hope to write my own detailed analysis soon, but the ones already in print are often quite good, if people will get a chance to read them.
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Wed May 03, 2006 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Thank you for the response Steve.
I can't wait to read your critique.
Also, just wanted to say an all around thank you to people at this forum and especially you Steve for all your hard work and availability. I'm sure it's not easy. I've learned sooo much in the past year or so from you and others just on this forum. I feel really blessed.
Our Lord God bless you all!
I can't wait to read your critique.
Also, just wanted to say an all around thank you to people at this forum and especially you Steve for all your hard work and availability. I'm sure it's not easy. I've learned sooo much in the past year or so from you and others just on this forum. I feel really blessed.
Our Lord God bless you all!
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Lotta Luv,
john b
john b
Steve, your sentence which I quoted above really surprised me.In short, though the story is fictional, the book claims to be based upon "facts" known to all real scholars.
My understanding is that the author of the book made it clear that the book was entirely fictional, and that the "historical" interpretation was entirely his own without any actual basis.
I understood that he wrote it in such a way as to make it appear historical.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
I've never read the DaVinci Code, nor do I intend to.
I think it's funny, however, that people are writing spin-off spoofs such as "Cracking the DaVinci Code" and others like john b said. It sort of makes the DaVinci Code look silly.
I think it's funny, however, that people are writing spin-off spoofs such as "Cracking the DaVinci Code" and others like john b said. It sort of makes the DaVinci Code look silly.
If that is true, what would be the objective of reading such a book? You won't gain any historical or factual knowledge from reading it. What good is knowing what <b><i>could</i></b> or should of happened if it didn't happen?Paidion wrote:My understanding is that the author of the book made it clear that the book was entirely fictional, and that the "historical" interpretation was entirely his own without any actual basis.
I understood that he wrote it in such a way as to make it appear historical.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Agape,
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)
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_Blind Beggar
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:22 am
- Location: Portland, OR
Paidion:
Regarding the quote that "the book claims to be based upon facts," I think what most people refer to is Brown's statement in the book that his characters are fictional, but "all descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."
This give many readers the impression that the novel is entirely factual. I don't agree that this was the intended meaning. In fact the FAQ on Dan Brown's own Da Vinci Code website states the following:
"BUT DOESN'T THE NOVEL'S "FACT" PAGE CLAIM THAT EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THIS NOVEL IS HISTORICAL FACT?
"If you read the "FACT" page, you will see it clearly states that the documents, rituals, organization, artwork, and architecture in the novel all exist. The "FACT" page makes no statement whatsoever about any of the ancient theories discussed by fictional characters. Interpreting those ideas is left to the reader."
America has way to many lazy uncritical thinker and I think they have all read the Da Vinci Code :-( .
Regarding the quote that "the book claims to be based upon facts," I think what most people refer to is Brown's statement in the book that his characters are fictional, but "all descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."
This give many readers the impression that the novel is entirely factual. I don't agree that this was the intended meaning. In fact the FAQ on Dan Brown's own Da Vinci Code website states the following:
"BUT DOESN'T THE NOVEL'S "FACT" PAGE CLAIM THAT EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THIS NOVEL IS HISTORICAL FACT?
"If you read the "FACT" page, you will see it clearly states that the documents, rituals, organization, artwork, and architecture in the novel all exist. The "FACT" page makes no statement whatsoever about any of the ancient theories discussed by fictional characters. Interpreting those ideas is left to the reader."
America has way to many lazy uncritical thinker and I think they have all read the Da Vinci Code :-( .
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Wow. Thanx Blind Beggar.
I guess it really helps to read it yourself, to find out what it's saying.
Everywhere I go, it seems like, these people have a copy of "The DaVinci Code" in their hands. I've always known it was basically sacrilege, but I've never browsed inside the book to find out.
By the way, what does "DaVinci" have to do with it? Wasn't Leonardo DaVinci a homosexual? Or maybe that was Michaelangelo ....
I guess it really helps to read it yourself, to find out what it's saying.
Everywhere I go, it seems like, these people have a copy of "The DaVinci Code" in their hands. I've always known it was basically sacrilege, but I've never browsed inside the book to find out.
By the way, what does "DaVinci" have to do with it? Wasn't Leonardo DaVinci a homosexual? Or maybe that was Michaelangelo ....
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Agape,
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)
Yes, DaVinci was apparently a homosexual, but that is not relevant to the validity of the book's thesis. I don't have my copy with me right now (I am in Oregon travelling at the moment), but the "Fact Page" at the beginning of the book, as I recall, did claim that its information about the Priori of Sion and other historical claims of the book are factual, which they are not. The quasi retraction cited from his website looks like a cowardly attempt to rescue his integrity now that his facts have been manifestly refuted by real historical scholars.
Besides, Dan Brown can't dodge his responsibility for deception by saying his characters were fictional. The book is not in the genre of fantasy or science fiction, but represents itself as a specie of historical fiction. No one expects a writer of such books to include only actual historial persons or verbatim conversations that actually occurred, but the expectation is that there is a germ of historical reality that forms the basis of the story. In this case, the alleged historical background is not the actual thriller and its characters, but the story they are uncovering as the plot develops.
The characters are represented as experts on ancient history, symbolism and archeological records. They speak with an air of authority about real things like the Nag Hamadi tablets, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other subjects that 99.9% of readers know nothing about, and they misrepresent completely the contents of such finds.
I am a critical reader, but had I not personally been familiar with much of the material that is discussed by the characters in the book, I would not only have come away with a very wrong impression of what has been actually found, but the information is presented in a way that makes it clear that the author sees himself as educating his readers through the medium of fiction.
It's a clever trick. Brown clearly believes the scenarios he is presenting, and wants his readers to believe them, too. To that end, he passes along a huge amount of disinformation in the guise of fact. There is no possibility of reducing the man's responsibility for deliberately perpetrating deceptive, anti-Christian propaganda. It is obvious that he wants the unsuspecting reader (i.e., almost all readers) to take the "facts" presented by his characters seriously, and he has reserved for himself the loophole of being able to claim, to any reader who knows the facts well enough to call him a liar, that "it was only fiction, so that people shouldn't take it so seriously."
"As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death, so is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?" Prov.26:18-19
Besides, Dan Brown can't dodge his responsibility for deception by saying his characters were fictional. The book is not in the genre of fantasy or science fiction, but represents itself as a specie of historical fiction. No one expects a writer of such books to include only actual historial persons or verbatim conversations that actually occurred, but the expectation is that there is a germ of historical reality that forms the basis of the story. In this case, the alleged historical background is not the actual thriller and its characters, but the story they are uncovering as the plot develops.
The characters are represented as experts on ancient history, symbolism and archeological records. They speak with an air of authority about real things like the Nag Hamadi tablets, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other subjects that 99.9% of readers know nothing about, and they misrepresent completely the contents of such finds.
I am a critical reader, but had I not personally been familiar with much of the material that is discussed by the characters in the book, I would not only have come away with a very wrong impression of what has been actually found, but the information is presented in a way that makes it clear that the author sees himself as educating his readers through the medium of fiction.
It's a clever trick. Brown clearly believes the scenarios he is presenting, and wants his readers to believe them, too. To that end, he passes along a huge amount of disinformation in the guise of fact. There is no possibility of reducing the man's responsibility for deliberately perpetrating deceptive, anti-Christian propaganda. It is obvious that he wants the unsuspecting reader (i.e., almost all readers) to take the "facts" presented by his characters seriously, and he has reserved for himself the loophole of being able to claim, to any reader who knows the facts well enough to call him a liar, that "it was only fiction, so that people shouldn't take it so seriously."
"As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death, so is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?" Prov.26:18-19
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
I realize this post has been up for a while but I just wanted to go some where where I felt someone out there as a Christian would maybe be in unity with me with this.
I find it very hard to swallow all the Christians and churches surrounding me holding all these bible classes, over head telecasts,non stop discussions,Etc.etc. regarding the DaVinci Code. I understand it has lies in it, I understand folks will walk away after reading it possibly believing the lies that are in it. BUT does that mean we have to buy into the "what I see as almost panic and Gossip of the "worldly stirring up of this book and it's contraversery?
I went to a new bible study tonight. I didnt know before hand what it was going to be on, yep, you quessed it. The Davinci Code. I was very disturbed with all the time and energy and dollars for books and videos spent on this again.Several people there almost expressed fear on what it was going to do with our society and our young children.. I listened to all and prayed for the Lord to help me keep my mouth SHUT all the time I was there. I didn't want to stir up discention because clearly I was the only one there that held the beliefs I did.
I won't be going back though. I tried to pleasantly leave, thanking the hostess. As a Christian I know it is important to know some of the truths in these matters especially if we are exposed to others taking it in as truth. But how much is enough.Just last night on 60 mins on tv they did a very good job debuncking the priority of Sion and how fake it was and even showed the artist who forged the papers it was printed on before being filed and in the 1950s also!. That cost the public virtually "nothing in dollars to watch".
In general though, I couldn't help seeing the smiles on the faces of all the book and video producers as they raked in the cash from all of this. Christians and non Christian publishers alike. While being quiet at the bible study tonight.. And the movie isn't even out yet. I learned tonight one of the co.s I think Nintendo is coming out with a game version. Aren't we just feeding into all this wordly, shark frenzy hype holding all these bible studies, church gatherings etc.even, extra books debunking the book.
D. Brown and his mangers have done a great job whipping us into a frenzy but at the same time as Christians shouldn't we be praying for him also? Even just as an enemy. I am getting alittle burnt out on hearing the folks around me put him down also. He's decieved, spreading rumors and lies but didn't God create him also and shouldn't we be praying for him too???
Does any one out there agree with me??? I feel like I am alone on an Island out here. EXCEPT I have peace because my Glorious father loves me, he will ultimately handle ALL of this so we don't need to be anxious, and I know it. Glow
I find it very hard to swallow all the Christians and churches surrounding me holding all these bible classes, over head telecasts,non stop discussions,Etc.etc. regarding the DaVinci Code. I understand it has lies in it, I understand folks will walk away after reading it possibly believing the lies that are in it. BUT does that mean we have to buy into the "what I see as almost panic and Gossip of the "worldly stirring up of this book and it's contraversery?
I went to a new bible study tonight. I didnt know before hand what it was going to be on, yep, you quessed it. The Davinci Code. I was very disturbed with all the time and energy and dollars for books and videos spent on this again.Several people there almost expressed fear on what it was going to do with our society and our young children.. I listened to all and prayed for the Lord to help me keep my mouth SHUT all the time I was there. I didn't want to stir up discention because clearly I was the only one there that held the beliefs I did.
I won't be going back though. I tried to pleasantly leave, thanking the hostess. As a Christian I know it is important to know some of the truths in these matters especially if we are exposed to others taking it in as truth. But how much is enough.Just last night on 60 mins on tv they did a very good job debuncking the priority of Sion and how fake it was and even showed the artist who forged the papers it was printed on before being filed and in the 1950s also!. That cost the public virtually "nothing in dollars to watch".
In general though, I couldn't help seeing the smiles on the faces of all the book and video producers as they raked in the cash from all of this. Christians and non Christian publishers alike. While being quiet at the bible study tonight.. And the movie isn't even out yet. I learned tonight one of the co.s I think Nintendo is coming out with a game version. Aren't we just feeding into all this wordly, shark frenzy hype holding all these bible studies, church gatherings etc.even, extra books debunking the book.
D. Brown and his mangers have done a great job whipping us into a frenzy but at the same time as Christians shouldn't we be praying for him also? Even just as an enemy. I am getting alittle burnt out on hearing the folks around me put him down also. He's decieved, spreading rumors and lies but didn't God create him also and shouldn't we be praying for him too???
Does any one out there agree with me??? I feel like I am alone on an Island out here. EXCEPT I have peace because my Glorious father loves me, he will ultimately handle ALL of this so we don't need to be anxious, and I know it. Glow
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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_STEVE7150
- Posts: 894
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:38 pm
I read the DaVinchi Code and Brown tries to give it the appearance of authenticity. It's my understanding the fellow who created the Priory of Sion historical documents admitted on his deathbed they were forgeries. But the crux of this will be that Christ's name will be out there and any potential sheep of his will investigate this and learn the truth about Him and any potential goats will get what they want and choose to believe the Davinchi Code.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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