How can you trust the Book of Momon

lee
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by lee » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:04 pm

I'm not a big fan of the idea of trying to assume a prooftext someone is using in order to prepare the counter prooftext or argument. My presupposition is grounded in the facts that I mentioned previously. All authority is Jesus'. Jesus relegated a certain measure of authority to the apostles (apostolic list: Mat. 10:2). Such authority (work miracles, write scripture, etc.) was only relegated according to the work of the Holy Spirit within the ministry of each apostle. All of this is depicted within the Biblical ecclesiastical framework underscored in John 16:12-15, Acts 8, Eph. 2:20. Obviously, John 16:12-15 deals with the inspirational work of the Holy Spirit within the written work and dictation of the 12 apostles. Acts 8 reveals that God chose only 12 apostles to indwell with the Holy Spirit in such a way as to provide inerrancy in miraculous work and divine inscripturation. Eph. 2:20 tells us that it is only upon the prophets (Old Testament), 12 apostles (New Testament), and Jesus that the church is built. This is the Biblical framework for what is and is not Scripture.

Now, tell us, why should someone accept the Book of Mormon and not the Quran? Both were allegedly sent from God to correct Christianity. A "burning in the bosom" doesn't count.

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SamMcNear
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by SamMcNear » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:09 am

Lee- I do believe there are Holy Spirit inspired prophets of Jesus today. I agree with you however when you said
If anyone believes that there is "new" scripture that has been revealed, there is absolutely no way to trust it. It is all arbitrary, with a side dish of "New Testament corruption" conspiracy theories.

True prophets today would not contradict what God already said in the Bible or add to it. They may however prophecy about personal or global future events, Biblical insights (I say this with extreme caution. These insights can not ad to, change or contradict what the scripture says), or prophecy words of wisdom etc... But again these prophecies will never contradict or ad to the already written Word of the God, the Bible. God never changes, His Word never changes, He is the same today, yesterday , and forever :)

-Sam

lee
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by lee » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:24 pm

Could you give a specific example of a "true prophet" prophesying, yet not adding to God's word, in such a way as it edified the saints?

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charleswest
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by charleswest » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:40 pm

The reason I am not a Mormon is because Jesus the Son of God has not allowed Moroni in my life, nor will He since Moroni rebels against His Word and seeks to deceive me and eventually ensure my eternal destruction.

There was certainly ample opportunity in my life, since my childhood playmate and best friend from kindergarten through High School and after was a devout Mormon, and his family as well.

Now, in later life, I wrestle against Moroni and will see his eternal destruction at the judgment.
“I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views... ” Abraham Lincoln. Excerpt from a letter to Horace Greeley. 22 August 1862
= = = =
Be Blessed. We Are Loved...
cw

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SamMcNear
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by SamMcNear » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:24 pm

Lee,

I love your question
Could you give a specific example of a "true prophet" prophesying, yet not adding to God's word, in such a way as it edified the saints?
I could give you a few examples of people prophesying about me and it coming true. These prophecies of my future did edify me and those who heard them. Also they did not contradict the Bible in anyway. But another good question here to ask is, were these people "true prophets" or was God just using them to speak to me. I guess I may never know, because a true prophet is 100% accurate every time all their life.

But even they are not true prophets, I feel the Bible allows for there to be true prophets today.

Sam

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Paidion
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by Paidion » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:54 pm

Sam, you wrote:I guess I may never know, because a true prophet is 100% accurate every time all their life.
If your statement is true, the Jonah could not have been a true prophet. He prophesied, "Yet 40 days and Ninevah will be overthrown." Ninevah wasn't overthrown in 40 days. It wasn't a conditional prophecy even though when God saw that the people repented, He changed his mind about the destruction which He had intended for the city. It was an absolute prophecy. But it didn't come to pass.

Also Micah couldn't have been a true prophet either. For when the priests and prophets wanted to put Jeremiah to death for prophesying against their city and its inhabitants, certain elders of the city reminded them that the LORD might change His mind, just as He did when Micah prophesied against Jerusalem. They said to the priests and prophets:

"Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and said to all the people of Judah: ‘thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.’ Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD repent of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Jeremiah 26:18,19

So Micah's prophecy (also recorded in the book of Micah) didn't come to pass either.

Even the LORD Himself would qualify as not being a true prophet by your criterion. For He sometimes declares that He will do one thing, but instead does the opposite.

If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. Jeremiah 18:7-10
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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lee
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by lee » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:13 am

Paidion,

I don't think you're correct about Jonah. In Jonah 1, Jonah flees from what God called him to do. In Jonah 4, we find out why, because he knew God is gracious and compassionate and would not bring calamity upon a repentant people, though Jonah angrily wanted them all destroyed despite their repentance. You can't assume that the one sentence of Jonah's preaching that is included in the text is the extent of his preaching, especially when that one sentence is proceeded by the writing saying that Jonah "began by". That is an argument from silence.

Accordingly, how don't see how your proceeding quotations are relevant.

lee
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by lee » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:17 am

Sam Mcnear,

Would you like to share with specificity?
And if you would indulge me, could you cite a passage of scripture which allows for the continuity of prophethood past the era of the apostles and those upon whom they placed their hands which passed along the gifts?

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SamMcNear
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by SamMcNear » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:06 am

Lee,

I'm not going to give specific of the prophecy to me.
but in Acts chapter 21 there are prophets (four woman prophets) and a prophet named Agabus. These prophets show that there can be prophets today since all this happened after Pentecost and there is no scripture after these saying there are no more prophets. I would say again I think prophets will never add to God's Word, only confirm or give insight to it or talk of future events and all this to edify the Body of Christ.

I found Steve's teachings on the Prophets and the teaching on Acts 21 helpful in my study on this. here are the links to those 2 teachings and a few more if you are interested.


15. Acts 18:23 - 21:14
http://www.thenarrowpath.com/mp3s/bible ... _21_14.mp3
16. Acts 21:15 - 24:27
http://www.thenarrowpath.com/mp3s/bible ... _15_24.mp3

Understanding Prophets
http://www.digitalministries.us/steve_g ... ophets.mp3
Prophets Outline (PDF)
http://www.digitalministries.us/steve_g ... ophets.pdf


06. Gift of Prophecy - Part 1
http://www.thenarrowpath.com/mp3s/cac/cac06.mp3
07. Gift of Prophecy - Part 2
http://www.thenarrowpath.com/mp3s/cac/cac07.mp3

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SamMcNear
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Re: How can you trust the Book of Momon

Post by SamMcNear » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:29 am

Paidion,

I didn't mean 100% accurate with every detail in their life :) just 100% accurate with speaking prophecies from God. Their prophecies had to be 100% accurate (Proof of a prophet—Deut.18:21-22/ 13:1-3/ 1 John 4:1-4). BUT some prophecies like those of Jonah was a warning saying if you don't repent then this will happen. :)

The scripture you quoted explains this nicely
If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. Jeremiah 18:7-10
Sam

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