an lds view of: The Book of Mormon

Jill
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Post by Jill » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:02 pm

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Jill
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Post by Jill » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:17 pm

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selah
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Re: an lds view of: The Book of Mormon

Post by selah » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:21 am

karenprtlnd wrote:Sue Ann (Selah) had posed some great questions over in topic "an lds on:By What Authority" both tuesday and wednesday.
Hi Selah! :)
1).
Sue Ann wrote- "Will you present me with evidence from the BoM. that might in fact, lead to the same Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the Bible teaches? It is my understanding that, on the one hand, we worship the same Jesus, except you believe Jesus made a trip to the now United States, and on the other hand, I believe He ascended to heaven from "as far as Bethany."(luke 24:50) Is it true that the BoM teaches things about Jesus that are exact contradictions to what the Bible teaches about Jesus?
Anyone is able to read the BoM. In 3 Nephi is the full account, within The Book of Mormon itself, from the sign of the birth of Christ (a night as if it were day), clear through to the appearence of the resurrected then ascended Jesus Christ, and His short stay among them.

That being, the night that was as light as day though the sun rose the next morning. This had been prophecied within other books found in the abrigment itself. Some scholars feel it was in south/central america, others feel that it may have been much further north. There are no sure locations. The night as if it were day = year 0 from that time forth. At year 34 as recorded, were sudden earthquakes, whirlwinds, even many cities sank. There were three nights and three days of solid darkness where not even a flame of a candle could be seen. This all happened just before the appearence of the resurrected Jesus Christ on this American continent. The book of 3 Nephi is not far from the end of the 15 books which comprise the ancient records on plates abridged by Mormon himself c.380AD. His son Moroni finishes writing the last two books c.421AD and the plates were then sealed up unto the Lord in the very place where they had been found N.NE. American continent c.1823 AD by the 17 year old Joseph Smith.

One can easily read this for himself. I would suggest reading the BoM, in order to achieve an intelligent argument in regard to it. Here are a few examples: How could the few quotes of Isaiah found in the BoM have been the same wordings as found in the KJV? Or, How could the sermon on the mount, as found in 3 Ne, be almost the same wordings and verses as found in the KJV Bible? These two things, I personally attribute to the early 1830 printing. Clue: KJV access.

2). (In attempting to agree on which version of the new testament to use in lds dialogue)
Sue Ann wrote-
karen wrote- "As for the BoM. The lds believe these people had left Jerusalem at 1st year Zedekiah, which would be around 2 Kings 24. This may or may not come into play. They would have already left long before NT Jerusalem.
"In the quote above, are you refering to the people leaving Jerusalem to come to the Americas? If so, where in the Bible does it say that the people left Jerusalem for the Americas at 1st year Zedekiah? Did I miss seeing the phrase, or is it a concept not explicitly stated? Would you explain what you meant when you wrote "As for the BoM. The lds people believe these people had left Jerusalem at 1st year Zedekiah..."
2 Kings 24 doesn't say anyone left. It doesn't have to. It says:
2 Kings 24:18(RSV) "Zedekiah was twenty-one years old when he became King, and he reigned for eleven years in Jerusalem."
Anyone could have left or stayed or come and gone at any time throughout the entire Bible.

Lehi, his wife and his 4 sons left all of thier belongings behind when they left Jerusalem. Possibly in the night. Later in the record it can be noted that Jeremiah the prophet had been in prison at the time. Jeremiah may have been warning the people of the coming of Nebuchadnezzar, and if Jeremiah had been put into prison, having been warned, other groups may have left as well durring that time.
Karen, I am sorry but I am having continued difficulty understanding some of your answers. I am attempting to understand history and cross-referencing scriptures between the BoM and the Bible.

So may I take one point? You said the LDS believe, "these people had left Jerusalem at 1st year Zedekiah, which would be around 2 Kings 24."

I'm still confused. The Bible says they carried them out of Jerusalem into Babylon. 2 King 24:15

So, since the Bible does not say they left for the Americas, what basis does the LDS have to base the assertion on?

I think one little difference won't convince me the BoM is a false document, but

can we agree on this one point, that the LDS don't have any historical documentation to base their assertion on?

I'm sorry to be having trouble tracking your answers. Thank you for helping me understand the LDS perspective on the alleged migration to the Americas.
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23

Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:32 pm

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selah
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Re: an lds view of: The Book of Mormon

Post by selah » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:13 pm

karenprtlnd wrote:I took your advice on 2 Kings 24:15 (RSV). Thank you.

Now, I fail to find what might limit just one man getting his family out of there at that time. Having to leave all of his belongings and property. Who was not a man of valore as to war, nor a prince, nor a smith. What a great time to have been warned by a man of God, Jeremiah, or by someone who had, and just leave.

This is merely a proof Sue Ann. Not proof. Proof of what? That of coarse anyone could have left stayed or arrived at any point throughout the entire Bible.

May I suggest that we explore and locate some of the more weighty matters and objections to The Book of Mormon. In regards the existance of The Book of Mormon itself. Or what has been most offensive to the Bible only Christian communities in general as to its existance. Or against The Book of Mormon as a text.

Its a clever little piece of work. It has a few soft spots. An impeccable name generation. And is a very clean sample of scripture, easily compared to its point of origination which was Jerusalem. Please remember that Lehi was of the tribe of Manasseh of Joseph of Egypt. That to have left Jerusalem far behind, would have been no accident.
I don't feel good tonight so will try to be brief.

By taking my "advice," are you stating that LDS don't have any Biblical basis for the migration assertion?

I agree that I too fail to find what might limit one from leaving, but that is not the question. The question is---does the Bible say so?

You suggest that we explore "weighty matters and objections." Bring one up. I'm listening. :)

I only brought up the alleged migration because I thought you mentioned it. Anyway, it is "weighty" if it finds itself on the list where the BoM failes to show integrity.

Actually, the asserted migration does intersect with a "weighty" issue. This issue can be proven within science. As you know, DNA can now be tested. Approximately 5,000 Native American's DNA has been tested against middle easterner's DNA and not one, not one person, not one DNA test links any Native Americans to middle eastern DNA. Not one.

The scientific evidence regarding DNA research in addition to the lack of historical and/or Biblical documentation leads us to doubt that middle eastern peoples migrated to the Americas. If middle easterners had migrated here, their DNA would still be in their so called Native American offspring.

The BoM states the Native American indians were originally from the middle east. Their DNA needs to match. It does not. The statements in the BoM are not true. Someone was not telling the truth.

Another matter: I mentioned Jesus' asention in another thread. The Bible says he was "near Bethany" when He ascended to heaven. It says nothing about Him going to the Americas.

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert! do not go outl or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms.' Do not believe it. For as the lightening comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Another verse in Rev. 1:7 states "...every eye will see Him."

So, with all due respect, I do not believe Jesus came down to south America.

Respectfully to you Karen, I must honestly say that I believe a spirit from satan came down and deceived...people. The Bible says that "if it were so, they would deceive the very elect."
Its a clever little piece of work. It has a few soft spots.
Yes I agree that the BoM is a clever work, but I do not say this with affection as I think you do.

The BoM is not an affectionate "little" anything. It is leading many away from the True Jesus.

Real Christians (both within the LDS church and outside the LDS church) are disciples of Jesus Christ, pure in heart, sanctified from the world, filled with the Holy Spirit, and lead to obedience in every thought and action.

Yes, I agree that the BoM has (more than) a few soft spots. Several of those soft spots are noted in the beginning of my post.

Karen, please don't feel hurt by me. I want more than anything to be in unity with you! However, you asked for some
weighty matters and objections to The Book of Mormon.
and these are some that I know of.

Please, I welcome you to show me that I am wrong. I have nothing on earth to lose by being wrong. I would love to find that you are right, but I need you to patiently look at the evidence and place your words so I can understand. Well?................I need some evidence, sister! :geek:
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23

Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:37 pm

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selah
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Re: an lds view of: The Book of Mormon

Post by selah » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:15 pm

karenprtlnd wrote:Ok... uh..... well.....

I am in the dictionary right now pondering the words evidence and evident. Right below it is then the word evil.

Interesting.

(Thank you for quoting my post just prior to my having to deleted some problem areas. I thought to retype them back in, but wasn't sure...... and problems they were. Bummer.)
Yes you are right sister, this is interesting.

Maybe we need evidence to keep us away from evil.

Love in Jesus, unity in His love,
Selah*
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23

Jill
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Post by Jill » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:11 pm

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selah
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Re: an lds view of: The Book of Mormon

Post by selah » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:38 am

karenprtlnd wrote:TEXT is evident. It can be seen and read.
EVIL, however, as impied in the dictionary, is intentionally causing another pain knowingly.
True.
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23

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