Kenosis Theory

[Guest]

On another board we've been discussing Kenosis theory (Jesus 'emptying' himself of divine attributes in some way) and it really made me think hard on the subject. Steve's thoughts on this issue, which I've heard from time to time, have also been influential. So I wrote my first 'draft' of a position on this issue and I was hoping for some feedback from you guys and girls who I consider great 'sharpeners'
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Kenosis theory is simply the doctrine that Jesus gave up some/all of His divine attributes while He was on earth. It is based, mostly, on Philippians 2:7 which says, 'but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.' I've been involved in an interesting message board dialogue on this issue for the past few days.

Personally, I am not convinced that Jesus used his personal divine attributes at any time between his conception and the cross. Perhaps strangely, though, my main basis for this isn't Philippians 2:7, but the Gospels themselves. To me, Jesus' self-limitations had less to do with emptying himself of divine attributes and more to do with truly taking-on flesh. To truly become human, in my current opinion, implies self-limitation.

That is why Jesus did so many things that God simply cannot do. God can't be born, God can't grow in wisdom, God can't be tempted, God can't grow weary, God can't be ignorant of information, and God can't die. Jesus, however, was born, grew in wisdom, was tempted, got tired, didn't know some things, and died. Why? Because he truly became flesh and flesh experiences those things.

But, you might say, what about all those miraculous things Jesus did? Aren't those evidence of him utilizing his divine powers? I certainly think they are evidence of divine power, but not specifically his divine power. I think everything Jesus did between conception and the cross he did by submission to the Father and empowerment by the Holy Spirit.

We don't have any reliable accounts of Jesus doing miraculous things prior to his baptism. So what happened at Jesus' baptism that changed things? Did he just figure out that he had divine powers? No, the Spirit of God descended on him (Matt 3:16), remained on him (John 1:32), and filled him (Luke 4:1). After that point we have further proof that everything Jesus did was by the power of the Spirt. When he healed sick people (ie. Matt 12:15) it was part of a prophecy that Isaiah had been given in Isaiah 42:1-4. Matthew quotes that prophecy which includes the line, "I will put my Spirit on him." It seems to me Jesus healed the sick, then, by the power of the Holy Spirit. What's more, Jesus himself said, in Matthew 12:28, "But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." So did Jesus drive out demons using his own divine attributes? No. He drove them out by the Spirit of God. It seems to me Jesus did everything in his ministry by the Spirit, even the more mundane things like travelling (Luke 4:1, 14), preaching (Luke 4:18 ), and praising (Luke 10:21).

Thus, I feel comfortable enough to make the claim that Jesus, between his conception and the cross, never used his divine attributes at all. Not a single time. Instead, he limited himself to the status of a mere human being and became a servant of God. He submitted to the leadership of the Holy Spirit in his life. By the power of the Holy Spirit He preached, praised, prayed, healed the sick, cast out demons, performed various miracles, discerned people's thoughts, had the strength to obey his father, etc.

To me, this is a very exciting realization. Why? It's exciting because I, as someone who wants more than anything to live like Jesus, will never have divine attributes. But I very much can be filled with the Holy Spirit! You know, when the Apostles did miracles, even raising people from the dead, we don't declare that they had 'divine attributes,' we simply recognize that they were Spirit-filled people, just like we can be. Jesus wasn't simply God walking around with skin, he was truly man and, therefore, truly an 'example' (John 13:15, 1 Cor 11:1, Phil 2:5, 1 Pet 4:1, John 14:12, Heb 10:34, etc) of how we can live obedient and Spirit filled life as well.

Feel free to sharpen or annihilate my view via comment God bless

[Guest]

Matt,

I mostly agree with you except when you said:

But I very much can be filled with the Holy Spirit! You know, when the Apostles did miracles, even raising people from the dead, we don't declare that they had 'divine attributes,' we simply recognize that they were Spirit-filled people, just like we can be.

This seems to imply that if we are properly filled with the Spirit we can do the same miracles they did but this ability was not permanent in the apostles. Paul could not heal Timothy and apparently no one was able to heal Paul. I do not think we could conclude from this that Paul was no longer filled with the Spirit.

All else sounded very good. One thing you might consider is the question regarding how Jesus knew who He was. It is my belief He knew it by faith; He believed the testimony of Mary. I believe He had perfect faith.

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback homer

I am not someone who believes that if we're Spirit filled will always be able to do miracles. I didn't mean to imply that. But I do believe miracles are possible and I was just making the point that when a Spirit filled believer works a miracle it doesn't mean he is divine.

I will think about how I can word that better. Thanks again & God bless

[Guest]

Matt, I understand you to be saying that the Holy Spirit can empower believers to do things that could be confused with divine ability. I think I'd agree with this and also say that Jesus worked his miracles through the same Holy Spirit that was made available to all believers.

Remember that Jesus was unable to perform mircles in his own hometown because they lacked faith. And Homer brought up good examples of Timothy and Paul carrying physical burdons despite being Spirit-filled men. Not sure what this says about the "word of faith" doctrine.

[Guest]

But I very much can be filled with the Holy Spirit! You know, when the Apostles did miracles, even raising people from the dead, we don't declare that they had 'divine attributes,' we simply recognize that they were Spirit-filled people, just like we can be. Jesus wasn't simply God walking around with skin, he was truly man and, therefore, truly an 'example' (John 13:15, 1 Cor 11:1, Phil 2:5, 1 Pet 4:1, John 14:12, Heb 10:34, etc) of how we can live obedient and Spirit filled life as well.

Hi Matt, Did'nt Jesus forgive sins which only God can do and in Matt 8.27 did'nt Jesus calm the wind and waves which Psalms 46,44 and 107 say is an attribute only God has. Would'nt these actions take more then a Spirit filled person?

[Guest]

steve7150--

i agree with you on the forgiving sins point but not necessarily on the calming the seas point. my guess (belief?) is that a spirit-filled person can deal with nature (of course the HS is actually doing it). e.g., elijah (or elisha) whacked the jordan river with his mantle and it separated. i realize there is no scripture (that i can think of) where someone other than jesus calmed the seas, but perhaps this would not be out of the question, if God wanted to do a miracle like this through one of His servants.

TK

[Guest]

I certainly am not saying that Jesus wasn't fully God while on earth. I'm saying He chose to limit himself to only that which the Father wanted to do through Him via the Holy Spirit. God, apparently, led him to forgive some individuals personally. Others, however, Jesus simply asked the Father to forgive (like when he said 'father, forgive them'). If He was utilizing divine characteristics all the time, he wouldn't have asked. He would have just done it himself, no?

Thanks for the feedback, I'm still thinking thru these things

[_Ely]

Hey matt, excellent article. I hada quesiton but there's another thread which is a more suitable place for it.

Thanks

[Guest]

Great article, Matt! Like Homer, I agreed with it except possibly for one point --- but it isn't the same point Homer made. That point about sometimes being able to perform miracles through the infilling of the Spirit, without being divine, seems correct to me.

However, I'd like to comment on the following:

Thus, I feel comfortable enough to make the claim that Jesus, between his conception and the cross, never used his divine attributes at all. Not a single time.

I fully agree that all of the "miracles of Jesus" were done by the Father through Him (or the Holy Spirit through Him, if you prefer). [I can do nothing of myself; the Father that dwells within me does the works]

I agree also that He didn't use His divine attributes even a single time, but not because He chose not to, but because He had divested Himself of them. I believe that the divine self-emptying of Phillipians 2:7 refers to this very thing. And if He emptied Himself of His divine attributes, then there weren't a few hanging about His Person which He could use, if He chose to do so.

I believe that after this divine self-emptying, the only aspect of Deity that remained was Jesus' identity [Before Abraham was, I am]

[Guest]

thanks for the feedback. I can certainly understand coming to that conclusion. I think, since the question of whether He A) didn't use what was available to Him or B) no longer had what had been available to Him...doesn't make a lot of 'practical' difference, I have a tendancy, in such cases, to take the more widely accepted doctrinal position. As I brainstormed these ideas to others, I had quite a few express that they were uncomfortable with the idea of Jesus no longer having divine attributes available to Him. In addition to that, I am still not 100% satisfied with my understanding of Phil. 2.

God bless,
matthew