You all lucked out.
Anyway, let me begin by saying that I have very little exposure to so-called "mainstream theology." I wouldn't know what the deal is with Calvinism vs. Arminianism, only that there is one. I'm not familiar with the various views on Revelation either. Sorry, Steve, but I haven't read your book on Revelation yet. Looks interesting, though. What background I do have in biblical studies is...well...different. That's the best way I can think of to say it.
I probably have the most in common with Messianic Judaism, although I wouldn't consider myself part of that denomination. My dad is Catholic and my mother is a member of one of the hundreds of Sabbath-keeping churches of god, so I come from a religiously divided background. Because of that, I try to learn what I can from the various perspectives that I come in contact with as well as share what others might find valuable or worthwhile.
Now that the intro is done, I'd like to share some thoughts on prophetic symbolism with the forum, as it seems that while there are many thoughtful, intelligent people here, there don't seem to be any who come from a background of studying the cultural context of the Old Testament, especially the early parts of it, as I have. (If I've missed anyone, though, please let me know!) I noticed some comments in some of the other posts on the forum that led me to believe that there isn't a really firm grasp here on where the prophets of the Old Testament were coming from, generally speaking. There are some good thoughts on the subject, but seemingly no overall 'feel' for it.
Let me take you back to the early years of Old Testament history, starting around the time of Abraham. As you know, Abraham hailed from a place called "Ur of the Chaldees". (This is somewhat of a mistranslation, but the details aren't important for the purpose of this explanation. Just so you know that I'm not unaware of this.) Ur was a major, cosmopolitan place at that time. It was part of a larger culture that scholars today would call "Mesopotamia". Mesopotamia, along with Egypt, were the two dominant cultures during this period in time. They had the most influence on biblical characters like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So, we can learn quite a lot by comparing their religion and culture to what we read in the bible.
Mesopotamia and Egypt had a very distinctive way of looking at things, which was quite different than the way we look at things today. To those ancient peoples, everything was in some way 'connected.' There were no clearly-defined boundaries between the spiritual and the physical, for instance. So, when we talk about whether certain biblical passages should be interpreted literally or spiritually, understand that that was never an issue with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - or the Israelites who came after them! There was no clear boundary because often, BOTH WAYS OF LOOKING AT THINGS WERE EQUALLY VALID!
As an aside, Christians today often put much more emphasis on the spiritual as opposed to the physical. This is just as wrong as overemphasizing the physical, which is what many non-religious people do.
To get back to Mesopotamia and Egypt, they also paid a great deal of attention to the understanding of Creation and everything that that meant to those people back then. For instance, the Egyptian funerary cult, their ideas on what happened after death, all followed directly from how they interpreted what had happened when the world was created. (I can explain why in another post, if anyone is interested.)
In the bible, Creation symbolism was very important to the prophets. There are many more references to the Creation than are obvious to us today, simply because we 'don't know the language' of Creation symbolism that the prophets used. A hundred years from now, most people would probably have no idea what "use the Force, Luke!" was talking about. In the same way, who would know that when the bible talks about God "sitting upon the river" and being "upon many waters" in Psalm 29, it's making a reference to Creation unless someone told them?
Why was Creation so important to the ancient peoples? For the simple reason that CREATION EXPLAINED WHY WE WERE HERE. For the Egyptians and the peoples of Mesopotamia, their role was to "connect heaven and earth." To them, the earth was merely the physical expression of what they couldn't see - the spiritual. The physical world mirrored the spiritual realm. The Egyptians (and later the Freemasons) had a saying: "As above [in heaven], so below [on earth]." The bible puts it in similar language. "Your [God's] kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." There are also many passages which talk about a heavenly Temple which was the pattern for the earthly one, a heavenly Tree of Life, a heavenly paradise, etc. In other words, we look forward to a time when, instead of being an imperfect mirror of heaven, the world would be perfectly conformed to heaven! (See Romans 8:19-23 among other passages.)
There's one last thing that I'd like to talk about, and that's apocalyptic symbolism - which is why I posted in the Eschatology forum instead of another. What the prophets often did was to use apocalyptic 'language' and symbolism to talk about a more immediate historical event or circumstance. They did this because they thought in terms of "the end from the beginning" (Isa. 46:9-10). It was by looking at Creation and what Creation could teach them that they could understand what the end of human history had in store. And, by comparing their immediate circumstances to the end of human history, they could hopefully teach the people the ultimate lessons of what our purpose is, living here on this earth.
Let me give a clear example of this (because the bible has many other examples which are a lot less clear), in Jeremiah 4:20-28:
"Disaster follows disaster;
the whole land lies in ruins.
In an instant My [God's] dwellings are destroyed,
My shelter [the Temple] in a moment.
How long must I [Jeremiah] see the battle standard
and hear the sound of the trumpet?
My [God's] people are fools;
they do not know Me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good."
I [Jeremiah] looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
I looked, and there was 'no man' [a Hebrew idiom];
every bird in the sky had flown away.
I looked, and the fruitful land [Israel] was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the LORD, before His fierce anger.
This is what the LORD says:
The whole land will be ruined,
though I [God] will not destroy it completely.
Therefore the earth will mourn
and the heavens above grow dark,
because I have spoken and will not relent,
I have decided and will not turn back."
What we're seeing here is basically Creation in reverse. Instead of being able to knowledgeably and maturely discern between good and evil (compare Hebrews 5:12-14), the people were like foolish children, and only knew how to do evil. Instead of God declaring "Let there be light" the heavens figuratively grew dark. Instead of Israel (being a type of the land of Eden) being a fruitful place, it had become a desolate wasteland, now figuratively "without form and empty." Instead of there being someone to stand up for what was right, someone who could prevent God's wrath from falling upon the wicked people, there was "no man." (Compare Eze. 22:29-31, Isa. 41:28, 50:2 and Psa. 106:23.) All of this bespoke of the impending Babylonian captivity, and yet it also foreshadowed the end of human history. It was Creation in reverse.
For that reason, I think it's a big mistake to argue about whether the book of Revelation was talking about the events of the first century or whether it was referring to a time just before Christ's return. The simple answer is that IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. In certain ways, the events of the first century foreshadowed what will happen at the end. Whether the book of Revelation was written prior to or after the destruction of the Temple MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. It could just as easily refer to either one, because the same apocalyptic symbolism can apply to both!
Does that make sense?
Damon
PS. Yes, I believe that there will be a physical, rebuilt Temple prior to Christ's return. However, I'm not overemphasizing the physical interpretation at the expense of the spiritual one (meaning God's people, a-la 1 Cor. 3:16, Eph. 2:19-22 et. al). I believe that they're both applicable, because everything is 'connected'. The two primary aspects of Creation (the physical and the spiritual) can each help to teach us about the OTHER aspect.
