Still confused about calling myself a Christian

[ace]

On the Friday Feb 12th show, Steve was saying to the caller before me asking about true and false assurance, that "if you say am I getting my needs met?" You still haven't repented yet. I don't quite get that. Jesus says we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves. Yet this statement along with "He who loves his life will lose it" John 12:25, seems to go against loving yourself. And how can a person go through life without trying/wanting to get their needs met? I thought the idea of loving others as yourself was to see to their needs as you see to your own. It seems like I keep running up against hearing, if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that - basic human living; you haven't really repented yet or you can't really call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian. I'm sure that's not correct, but maybe you can see where I get confused about what I'm hearing.

[steve7150]

, what you value the most

On the Friday Feb 12th show, Steve was saying to the caller before me asking about true and false assurance, that "if you say am I getting my needs met?" You still haven't repented yet. I don't quite get that. Jesus says we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves. Yet this statement along with "He who loves his life will lose it" John 12:25, seems to go against loving yourself. And how can a person go through life without trying/wanting to get their needs met? I thought the idea of loving others as yourself was to see to their needs as you see to your own. It seems like I keep running up against if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that; you haven't repented or you can't call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian.

I think, that if the thing you value the most, the thing you magnify the most is your needs instead of God and his Word then Christ is not really your Lord. It's an issue of what you put first , what you value the highest for as Christ said "seek God and his kingdom first and then all these other things will be added".

[steve]

...how can a person go through life without trying/wanting to get their needs met?

Steve7150 quoted the very verse that came to my mind. When one is seeking the kingdom of God, this replaces the previous pursuit of self-fulfillment. However, all of the real needs of the disciple will be attended to by the King for whose kingdom this pursuit was undertaken. The one who believes this, and chooses accordingly, is the one who has the faith to be a follower of Christ.

According to Matthew 16:24, one becomes a disciple when he (1) denies himself, (2) takes up his cross and (3) follows Jesus. The first two steps are prerequisite to the third.

Jesus says we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves. Yet this statement along with "He who loves his life will lose it" John 12:25, seems to go against loving yourself.

It is popular in this modern age to hear preachers and Christian teachers say that one must first love oneself before he can love his neighbor as he loves himself. However, love for oneself is the default state of the human heart. Jesus did not advocate loving oneself. He advocated loving others as one already loves himself. Jesus went even further when He said that we must love each other as He loved us (John 13:34), since Jesus did not love us as He loved Himself, but rather He loved us at the expense of Himself. Self-love is the chief barrier to coming to Christ on His terms.

It seems like I keep running up against if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that; you haven't repented or you can't call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian.

You may be judging yourself too harshly—or maybe not. Probably no one can really assess your own heart as you yourself can. However, you may be applying the tests more stringently to yourself than is realistic. I have found that some are inclined to do this to themselves. Usually, this happens when people have not properly understood the heart of God and His grace toward sinners. Some think (or feel) that they must be perfect before God accepts them.

We have to acknowledge that there are false Christians as well as real ones. Our responsibility is to make sure that we are of the right variety.

[ace]

It seems like I keep running up against if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that; you haven't repented or you can't call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian.

You may be judging yourself too harshly—or maybe not. Probably no one can really assess your own heart as you yourself can. However, you may be applying the tests more stringently to yourself than is realistic. I have found that some are inclined to do this to themselves. Usually, this happens when people have not properly understood the heart of God and His grace toward sinners. Some think (or feel) that they must be perfect before God accepts them.

We have to acknowledge that there are false Christians as well as real ones. Our responsibility is to make sure that we are of the right variety.

I don't know if it's a matter of judging myself too harshly as opposed to knowing if I have a realistic appraisal, based on what I've been hearing lately. There used to be no doubt whatsoever. And that was based on how I felt about the Lord and how I felt He felt about me, understanding the Gospel to the best of my ability, my entire life. I've always thanked God for looking after me and saving me from myself, from my sinfulness and self destructiveness. There was a time when I got myself out of a jam I put myself in, and started to congratulate myself, and then realized I had God to thank for enabling me to escape. Stuff like that. A very simplistic childlike relationship and faith. I’m one of those born loner types. I’ve never really had any friends, I have never really been in a deep relationship with anyone, except God. But I was also ignorant about or oblivious to a lot of theological stuff that just now, after 46 years, is being brought to my attention. And I’m trying to get a handle on it. I don’t know if you’re telling me stuff I need to feel convicted over, or if I’m being paranoid and letting myself become needlessly frightened. It seems like you’re saying most people’s beliefs about Christianity are false. All of a sudden most of it seems very unhopeful for most believers. It seems like all I have to rely on is Matthew 19:25-26 (When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.") But waiting to hear you or someone else say that verse doesn’t say what I or anyone else thinks it says and there goes that assurance out the window.

[ace]

, what you value the most

On the Friday Feb 12th show, Steve was saying to the caller before me asking about true and false assurance, that "if you say am I getting my needs met?" You still haven't repented yet. I don't quite get that. Jesus says we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves. Yet this statement along with "He who loves his life will lose it" John 12:25, seems to go against loving yourself. And how can a person go through life without trying/wanting to get their needs met? I thought the idea of loving others as yourself was to see to their needs as you see to your own. It seems like I keep running up against if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that; you haven't repented or you can't call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian.

I think, that if the thing you value the most, the thing you magnify the most is your needs instead of God and his Word then Christ is not really your Lord. It's an issue of what you put first , what you value the highest for as Christ said "seek God and his kingdom first and then all these other things will be added".

I get that. I always have. I guess I just got caught up in the particular phrasing. I have always credited God for supplying me with all that I need to get by in this flesh. And discredited myself for sometimes supplying myself with what I don't need, and regret having acquired or indulged in, wasted time with. Putting God first is the only really desirable and lasting thing and supplies everything else. Everything else is temporal. There’s probably nothing that I needed, wanted, owned etc. 20 years ago, that matters or is around anymore, except for the Lord.

[Homer]

Hi Ace,

I'm glad you are posting here; I have heard you on the radio. You have brought up a good question. To my way of thinking, your concern about this matter is a very good sign.

Perhaps the following will be of some comfort and encouragement to you:

Romans 10:8-13 (New King James Version)

8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9. that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

May God bless and comfort you,
Homer

[ace]

Hi Ace,

I'm glad you are posting here; I have heard you on the radio. You have brought up a good question. To my way of thinking, your concern about this matter is a very good sign.

Perhaps the following will be of some comfort and encouragement to you:

Romans 10:8-13 (New King James Version)

8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9. that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

May God bless and comfort you,
Homer

Thank you Homer. But like I said, it's not what's written in the Bible that's causing me confusion, it's what I've been hearing now that I find myself plugged in. I seem to recall hearing it said recently that people can't just go by that very segment of scripture with Rom 10:9 especially quoted. That there is much more to it than that. That people want it to be easy, but it's not, even though there's oodles of pastor / teachers telling them it is. That if you consider the entirety of Scripture, you can't stand on that alone. Or at least that's what it sounded like to me. I'm just having a lot of trouble trying to figure out if I have the facts straight. Steve and the caller before me seemed to be basically saying that if Salvation were laid out to all Christians the way Jesus (sternly) laid it out, most of them would probably bail, and that’s probably what needs to happen. It’s almost like they're saying only 12 out of every 5000 Christians are true Christians, because most Christians are just being lead or leading themselves down the primrose path to destruction, because they don't understand what’s really required of them and wouldn't stay the actual course if they did. The conversation started out sounding encouraging, but it’s almost like that wasn’t good enough and then they seemed to start laying it on really thick. Then it softened up again for me. I’m just striving to try getting it down as cold as the two of them seem to have it, but in the meantime my head is spinning.

[steve7150]

It’s almost like they're saying only 12 out of every 5000 Christians are true Christians, because most Christians are just being lead or leading themselves down the primrose path to destruction, because they don't understand what’s really required of them and wouldn't stay the actual course if they did.





Put God first, magnify him in your mind and imagination and esteem him and disesteem the things of the world. It's just a choice my friend because something will be first in your mind, which is why Paul said we need to transform our minds.
If you put God first then what you can have is a rest in Christ knowing that the grace of God is on you. As far as other Christians , you can fret your whole life about it but we can only leave that to God.

[brody196]

Thank you Homer. But like I said, it's not what's written in the Bible that's causing me confusion, it's what I've been hearing now that I find myself plugged in. I seem to recall hearing it said recently that people can't just go by that very segment of scripture with Rom 10:9 especially quoted. That there is much more to it than that. That people want it to be easy, but it's not, even though there's oodles of pastor / teachers telling them it is. That if you consider the entirety of Scripture, you can't stand on that alone. Or at least that's what it sounded like to me. I'm just having a lot of trouble trying to figure out if I have the facts straight. Steve and the caller before me seemed to be basically saying that if Salvation were laid out to all Christians the way Jesus (sternly) laid it out, most of them would probably bail, and that’s probably what needs to happen. It’s almost like they're saying only 12 out of every 5000 Christians are true Christians, because most Christians are just being lead or leading themselves down the primrose path to destruction, because they don't understand what’s really required of them and wouldn't stay the actual course if they did. The conversation started out sounding encouraging, but it’s almost like that wasn’t good enough and then they seemed to start laying it on really thick. Then it softened up again for me. I’m just striving to try getting it down as cold as the two of them seem to have it, but in the meantime my head is spinning.

Hey Brother,

Please consider who Jesus was talking to when He laid things out sternly. Jesus' audience was at times filled with self righteous Pharisees, so His message to them would be one of judgment. Perhaps a good verse for you to meditate on is Matthew 11:"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

[Jill]

On the Friday Feb 12th show, Steve was saying to the caller before me asking about true and false assurance, that "if you say am I getting my needs met?" You still haven't repented yet. I don't quite get that. Jesus says we're supposed to love others as we love ourselves. Yet this statement along with "He who loves his life will lose it" John 12:25, seems to go against loving yourself. And how can a person go through life without trying/wanting to get their needs met? I thought the idea of loving others as yourself was to see to their needs as you see to your own. It seems like I keep running up against hearing, if you're not doing this or that, or you are doing this or that - basic human living; you haven't really repented yet or you can't really call yourself a disciple. In other words you're a phony Christian. I'm sure that's not correct, but maybe you can see where I get confused about what I'm hearing.

Ace,

Moses says nothing of Loving others, but speaks much on not hurting others, and when one becomes aware of an evil he may have commited, to stop it (repent, or reverse your normal bad use and hurting of others) bring forth an offering and fruits meet for repentence... Nothing about loving ones self. and Nothing of loving others ignoring your own creepiness. Jesus said more about those who are my disciples will do by sayings. Of repentence, and fruits meet for repentence, and to be baptized, and in continuing in such. The Spirit in man fullfills the Law in its reasonableness and simplicity, and love seems its middle name. To be able to give a gift which you yourself would deem a goodly gift to have yourself recieved, is what I think is meant. And to wait for God to reveal His love us in His many ways. Not rushing in with "I love myself" mantras... if you know what I mean.

Moses is clear that a man is not able to repent until he becomes aware of some sort of personal infraction, and even then, has a heart to repent rather than to justify himself in his own eyes. That you even consider Jesus Christ in your thinking and your doings, I would think, would make you already a mindful Christian indeed.