The Hiddeness Of God

[mikew]

But what is important is that the sower only intended to sow seed in the field. The field is where the seed should grow. And we can't blame the soil along the road for being hard, this is how a road is supposed to be. Again, the rocky ground was not designed or prepared for the seed.

That sounds like a particularly Reformed understanding of the passage. I would not agree that the road was "intended" to be hard or that the seed was only intended for the field. Jesus seems to simply be describing the truth of life. I think your interpretation relies on a presupposition you bring to the passage.

You might be right if it is assumed that people understand that roads should be made of generally solid construction.

Maybe the "reformed" sound of the passage is decreased if the passage is understood to apply to the circumstances of the first century rather than trying to make a general doctrine out of it. So this seemed to apply only to Jesus' walk on earth and when He preached; the parable wasn't about people hearing the gospel today.

Sure we could start to apply analogies to the present times. Yet such applications then are more detached from the original application of the parable. I think the application for present times would involve figuring out how to prepare the "soil" before the seed (the gospel of the kingdom) comes.

[Michelle]

Maybe the "reformed" sound of the passage is decreased if the passage is understood to apply to the circumstances of the first century rather than trying to make a general doctrine out of it. So this seemed to apply only to Jesus' walk on earth and when He preached; the parable wasn't about people hearing the gospel today.

Sure we could start to apply analogies to the present times. Yet such applications then are more detached from the original application of the parable. I think the application for present times would involve figuring out how to prepare the "soil" before the seed (the gospel of the kingdom) comes.

So what is the original application of the parable? Did Matthew include it in his gospel just so people like me, who wonder how people could be so unbelieving after the saw and heard Christ, would have a bit of an explanation? It seems like a lot of wasted words if it was just to explain a short phenomenon which has little application for future generations. You did give a slight application for today; figuring out how to prepare the soil before the seed. Is this our duty? I dunno, Mike, that sounds kind of seeker-sensitive to me.

[mikew]

So what is the original application of the parable? Did Matthew include it in his gospel just so people like me, who wonder how people could be so unbelieving after the saw and heard Christ, would have a bit of an explanation? It seems like a lot of wasted words if it was just to explain a short phenomenon which has little application for future generations. You did give a slight application for today; figuring out how to prepare the soil before the seed. Is this our duty? I dunno, Mike, that sounds kind of seeker-sensitive to me.

I will continue this topic at Matt 13 Parable 1 -- Seed and Sower

There is still a connection to the "Hiddeness of God" yet I think this parable has a narrower application than being discussed on the current thread.

[Jill]

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[darinhouston]

Could there be the topic Calvinism in the Religion and Philosophy section?

It's in the Doctrinal Topics Section -- Calvinism, Arminianism & Open Theism

Though "arguably" it's a different philosophy, the reality is it's a doctrinal difference between orthodox Christian belief. The Religion and Philosophy section is for completely different philosophies or religions that are counter to or outside the Christian faith.

[Priestly1]

The sublime mystery of God....why so distant yet so near?


Here we deal with the everpresence of God but our inability to experience Him daily.

Is God an experience? Can He be felt and quatitatively defined........ask Moses or the Apostles. We submerge our finite mind and spirit into the depths of God's unfathomable being daily in our communion with Christ Jesus through God's holy Spirit. For many that is not enough....for me that is enough to chew on. How can a drop of water experience or know the vast ocean he or she has chosen to merge with?

God is more than a finite experience....He is a drowning of our self into his depths of eternal being........."Be still and know that I Am God."


Do we ever become still in this McDonald Age of fast food sprirituality? I speak as an Old Catholic Christian....but I was Protestant.
Mystical Life in Christ is not a liver Quiver or a Giggle Fest. It is a Rock Solid Knowing................it is absolute Presence.

I am a mere shell of what I will become....should I expect more that a mrer shell can withstand?
God is like a vast Ocean we are all called to submerge ouselves in and die to our prior world of selfish constructs......we must commit spiritual suicide in God's vast eternal being and become reborn into His eternal gory............sons of god spiritually until sons of god physically (resurrestion).

I do not feel or experience God.....I know and realise Him in my life here and now........so that He may know and realise Me in the world to come.

I have always meet a mystic since a child.......I heard God and ran.......................but He is Faithful when I am not.....a prodding driver of this stubborn ass (donkey).



In Christ,

Rev. Ken

[Priestly1]

Excuse me,

But typing is not my fortay.................I have been a mystic since a child. I canot say I have felt God.........but I have been overwelmed by Him...surrounded and overcome. He came to me....I have never come to Him. Christ is all I know.......He is Gid manifested to me.....otheriwse it's the Bible (i.e Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth).


Those who seek paraphysical experiences...........I have no advice.



Rev. Ken.

[Homer]

Ken,

Thank you for sharing your interesting perspective! I have always enjoyed hearing you when you call in to the Narrow Path.

[Paidion]

I think we kind of got off topic. Let me state my point: Why doesn't God speak to us, tenderly, daily? If we really do have "free will" would not more evidence accomplish more conversions?

More evidence CAN accomplish more conversions; I will give one example in a man whom I personally know well. He is my cousin's husband; we'll call him "Chipper".

Chipper and his siblings were raised as atheists. At the time of the incident I am about to relate, Chipper's wife was a Christian. Chipper didn't mind his wife attending church or his children attending Sunday School. He didn't think it would do them any good, but didn't see that it could harm them much either, so if they enjoyed it....

One day, Chipper went into a pub with his brother for a beer (we'll call him "Frank"). They had just sat down, ordered their beers, but hadn't started to drink yet, when Chipper heard some one say, "Chipper, what are you doing? You shouldn't even be here!" Chipper couldn't believe what he was hearing. He thought his brother had uttered these words.

"What did you say, Frank?"

"I didn't say anything. What's the matter with you?"

"Oh, I thought I heard you say something." Chipper dismissed what he had heard, and began to relax again. Then the next time he raised his eyes, all the people sitting there appeared as skeletons, rather than people. At that, Chipper realized that God was revealing Himself to him. He got up and said to Frank, "God has spoken to me. I'm getting out of here."

"What! Are you crazy? I'm not going anywhere; I'm staying."

"I'm going," Chipper said, and headed for the door. Frank began to worry that his brother might be losing his mind, and so he went out with him, and drove him home.

At home, Chipper related his experience to his wife. She assured him that it was God who had spoken to him all right. Well, the end of the story is that Chipper became a disciple of Christ that night.

I had heard this story from someone else, and didn't know for sure how much of it was true ... if any. But one day we had the privilege of a visit from Chipper and his wife, my cousin. I asked Chipper directly about the matter. He told the story exactly as I had heard it. I said to him, "That is most amazing! God has never spoken to me in an audible voice."

Chipper replied, "Don, you've never needed it. In my case, I know I would NEVER have become a Christian if He hadn't done so. I thought it was all fairy tales ... people's imagination. But after that experience I KNEW God really existed, and cared about people. And now... all I want to do is serve Him."

Having said this, I don't think this work of God in Chipper's life can be universalized so as to "accomplish more conversions". There are so many complications, details about personalities, circumstances, and chains of causes, etc., that a general rule cannot be made. Only God can foresee (in a predictive sense) how any given individual may respond to His direct intervention. All we can do is rejoice when He does intervene out of love for an individual!