On Steve's May 22nd, he mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem as the national or generational judgment of the nation of Israel.
Do you think that God still does this? I have said before that in the Old Testament, a hurricane, or event like 9/11 might be interpreted as God's judgment. The difference is that a prophet interpreted the event and that we don't have prophets anymore.
So, do you think God still does this? Who would we trust to interpret these events? Might these be simply natural consequences or natural disasters?
Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
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jeffreyclong
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Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Nope. I don't think He still does this or ever did do this.
There are countless people who interpret every national disaster and every atrocity committed by sinful man as God's judgment on some one or God's discipline of someone.
God has nothing to do with these things. Natural disasters are the consequence of living in a fallen world. Man's cruelty to man is the consequence of man's fallen nature.
There are countless people who interpret every national disaster and every atrocity committed by sinful man as God's judgment on some one or God's discipline of someone.
God has nothing to do with these things. Natural disasters are the consequence of living in a fallen world. Man's cruelty to man is the consequence of man's fallen nature.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Zechariah 14:1-2
New King James Version (NKJV)
1. Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Of course God was only making a prediction here of what some bad folks might do. Or Zechariah was mistaken. Or God was taken by surprise and wouldn't be able to stop it anyway. Or something.
So the answer is God does not still do this cuz He never did.
New King James Version (NKJV)
1. Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Of course God was only making a prediction here of what some bad folks might do. Or Zechariah was mistaken. Or God was taken by surprise and wouldn't be able to stop it anyway. Or something.
So the answer is God does not still do this cuz He never did.
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Right.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Paidion,
You have made these assertions previously, and you base them upon...what? You certainly disagree with Moses (Deut.9:5; 18:12), David (1 Sam.17:46; Ps.2:12; 3:7; 5:5-6; etc.), the prophets (Isa.10:5-7, 15; Jer.25:27-29; Joel 1:15; 2:11; Amos 1:1-12; 2:1-6; Obadiah 8-9; Mic.1:3-6; etc.), Jesus (Matt.21:40-41; 22:7) and Paul (Acts 23:3) on this. In other words, just about every portion of scripture contradicts you. Where are you getting your information?
You have made these assertions previously, and you base them upon...what? You certainly disagree with Moses (Deut.9:5; 18:12), David (1 Sam.17:46; Ps.2:12; 3:7; 5:5-6; etc.), the prophets (Isa.10:5-7, 15; Jer.25:27-29; Joel 1:15; 2:11; Amos 1:1-12; 2:1-6; Obadiah 8-9; Mic.1:3-6; etc.), Jesus (Matt.21:40-41; 22:7) and Paul (Acts 23:3) on this. In other words, just about every portion of scripture contradicts you. Where are you getting your information?
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
I get my information from my understanding of the character of the Father as revealed by His only-begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah, quite an "advance" from the primitive understanding which the patriarchs had.
Let's look at Matthew 21:40-41 to which you referred. Jesus asked:
When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”
This is what the tenants of the parable, by whom Jesus meant the Pharisees (who later murdered the Son whom God sent), would expect the owner do to the tenants.
But what did JESUS say would happen to the tenants? He told them in the next two verses. Here is the second of the two:
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
The Kingdom was taken away from the Pharisees and given to the true Israel, the Israel of God. God merely transferred the Kingdom. He didn't "put those wretches to a miserable death." That's what the Pharisees thought should be done. No doubt they got it from the law of Moses.
They were also ready to stone the woman taken in adultery whom Jesus did not condemn. I'm sure they were ready to follow the Levitical laws and cut off womens' hands for grabbing a man's testicles, and giving the water test for suspected adultery (women only).
Let's look at Matthew 21:40-41 to which you referred. Jesus asked:
When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”
This is what the tenants of the parable, by whom Jesus meant the Pharisees (who later murdered the Son whom God sent), would expect the owner do to the tenants.
But what did JESUS say would happen to the tenants? He told them in the next two verses. Here is the second of the two:
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
The Kingdom was taken away from the Pharisees and given to the true Israel, the Israel of God. God merely transferred the Kingdom. He didn't "put those wretches to a miserable death." That's what the Pharisees thought should be done. No doubt they got it from the law of Moses.
They were also ready to stone the woman taken in adultery whom Jesus did not condemn. I'm sure they were ready to follow the Levitical laws and cut off womens' hands for grabbing a man's testicles, and giving the water test for suspected adultery (women only).
Last edited by Paidion on Fri May 25, 2012 10:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
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jeffreyclong
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:14 pm
- Contact:
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
@paidon. Thank you for your response.
@steve. Would you mind sharing your opinion on my question. I'd appreciate your insight.
@steve. Would you mind sharing your opinion on my question. I'd appreciate your insight.
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Um...AD 70?Paidion wrote:I get my information from my understanding of the character of the Father as revealed by His only-begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah, quite an "advance" from the primitive understanding which the patriarchs had.
Let's look at Matthew 21:40-41 to which you referred. Jesus asked:
When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”
This is what the tenants of the parable, by whom Jesus meant the Pharisees (who later murdered the Son whom God sent), would expect the owner do to the tenants.
But what did JESUS say would happen to the tenants? He told them in the next two verses. Here is the second of the two:
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
The Kingdom was taken away from the Pharisees and given to the true Israel, the Israel of God. God merely transferred the Kingdom. He didn't "put those wretches to a miserable death." That's what the Pharisees thought should be done. No doubt they got it from the law of Moses.
They were also ready to stone the woman taken in adultery whom Jesus did not condemn. I'm sure they were ready to follow the Levitical laws and cut off womens' hands for grabbing a man's testicles, and giving the water test for suspected adultery (women only).
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Umm... What evidence do you have that God did it?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does God still inflict national or generational judgment
Jesus. Matthew 23: 31-36 "That on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth.." What do you think "came" on them in AD 70 and who do you think sent it?Paidion wrote:Umm... What evidence do you have that God did it?