Bethel - Redding, CA

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jaydam
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:32 pm

dizerner wrote:Sounds like it's addressing the Mormon belief? https://carm.org/mormonism-and-atonement-of-jesus

Either way quite odd, thanks for sharing.
Interesting. I hadn't put those together.

I think the biggest problem for me with Bethel and NAR, and subsequently the Passion translation, is the belief in a renewed apostleship. Followers of NAR hold their apostle's words seemingly on par with the original apostles.

Even the level at which NAR pastors place the Passion translation is scary, saying that Dr. Simmons was commissioned by God to create this translation, which hold deeper meaning and greater clarity. Calling the Passion translation sacred.

It has been really sad to watch friends fall into this movement, and believe that God is commissioning all of this. If I question it, then I am looked at with pity as I am not on the cusp of the new work of God, but stuck in antiquity.

I've been doing a little more reading on the Passion translation, and the most shocking thing I find is that verses are translated to support the New Age idea of declaring and manifesting. For example:

Phillipians 1:2 "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"

In the Passion it reads: “We decree over your lives the blessings of divine grace and supernatural peace that flow from God our wonderful Father, and our Anointed Messiah, the Lord Jesus.”

It now becomes apostolic declaration which unleashes blessings.

Another:

Galatians 6:6 "Let him who is taught in the word share all good things with him who teaches."

Passion: “And those who are taught the Word will receive an impartation from their teacher; a transference of anointing takes place between them.”

The Passion has really been doctored to fit in the NAR claim for the transfer of "mantles" or anointings.

Anyway, I really hope that the movement collapses soon. I have been shocked at how much division it has caused in my friendships.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by morbo3000 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:04 am

Thanks for this thread guys.

We do some Bethel songs in our worship service and they are fabulous. But when a search to youtube brings up a lot of "spontaneous" videos that go way long, I become wary of them being off-track, in that special way only charismatics seem to.

It was helpful for my wife to read the thread.
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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jaydam
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:55 pm

You are very welcome.

Here is a very intriguing series on Bethel from a "Christian" witch. Her thoughts as she visits the church with coven friends are interesting.

Part 1 - http://www.patheos.com/blogs/agora/2015 ... ch-part-1/

Part 2 - http://www.patheos.com/blogs/agora/2015 ... he-energy/

Part 3 - http://www.patheos.com/blogs/agora/2015 ... rophecies/

The battle of energies, prophecies they receive, and their view of the healings shed some interesting light on the matter. Probably some of the most interesting testimony of Bethel I have come across.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:19 am

New write-up from a guy who has time to put in more consideration of the Passion Translation being used by Bethel and the New Apostolic Reformation.

http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article ... ranslation

Like I think I said previously, I don't expect any replies, just keeping the thread updated with current info for those who care to know what is going on related to this movement.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:27 pm

Thanks! Keep em coming.


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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by backwoodsman » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:07 pm

jaydam wrote:The battle of energies, prophecies they receive, and their view of the healings shed some interesting light on the matter. Probably some of the most interesting testimony of Bethel I have come across.
In part 3, she says that on 3 separate occasions Bethel prophets prophesied over her and told her, a Pagan witch and former Christian, that God is very pleased with her, she's been faithful to Him, He's proud of her, etc. I guess that tells us all we need to know about the source of the spiritual power that's operating at Bethel.

It seems clear that those with whom the witches had contact really think they're following Jesus and using His power.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:59 am

backwoodsman wrote:In part 3, she says that on 3 separate occasions Bethel prophets prophesied over her and told her, a Pagan witch and former Christian, that God is very pleased with her, she's been faithful to Him, He's proud of her, etc. I guess that tells us all we need to know about the source of the spiritual power that's operating at Bethel.

It seems clear that those with whom the witches had contact really think they're following Jesus and using His power.
I agree. Certainly that single issue closes the book on the spirit of Bethel. However, I am glad that their writing did not just stop with the telling of their prophecies.

I found the witch very well spoken and intelligent in their observations - such as the timing of the offering plate passing, the forced movements by the people, and the logical contradictions in the sermon. They catch details that are present in many churches I believe.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:26 am

https://youtu.be/iuP5uOI7Xwc

Extremely interesting video by magician Derren Brown who takes an average man off the street and in 6 months turns him into a "Christian" faith healer.

This got the most positive reaction from my Bethel friends I've seen in our dialogue. It rocked a few of them pretty hard, and we've been having some intense Bible studies based off the video.

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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:53 pm

The article from the pagan coven was very interesting. I'd love to have them take a church tour. If I were take their sensing of spirit colors at face value, I wonder what they experience in others.

We sing quite a few bethel songs. They are quite good. And our church is charismatic. So while reading I was afraid their observations would wind up revealing charismatic church problems en masse. But there really are significant differences between bethel and my experience of traditional charismatic churches, such as foursquare and vineyard.

One huge thing that caught my eye was the worship music focusing on emptying yourself, and declaring "only Jesus." I can see the point of the witches that this devalues what the spirit does -in- us. God's plan is to redeem us and use us for the kingdom. So we have worth. It made me think through our worship songs, and I don't think that's a prevalent theme.

The last thing that really caught me was the see-saw between "trust God," and "you're not trusting God enough, so you need to work to trust God."

What a head trip that is. I've been in it my whole life growing up charismatic.


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jaydam
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Re: Bethel - Redding, CA

Post by jaydam » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:04 pm

From Benni Johnson's ("Apostle" Bill Johnson's wife) new book Healthy and Free - http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Free-Jour ... 0768407915
Declarations

Once you start on the journey to loving yourself, giving yourself permission
to change, and doing an “about-face,” then you can begin to start making
declarations over your life. These are a God-given tool that speak the power of
God’s Word over ourselves, our lives, relationships, and situations. God
created the world and everything we see with a single word. He literally spoke
it into existence. So, if we are made in the image of God, and if all authority in
Heaven and on earth has been given to us, then our words must be powerful as
well. The Bible says, “You will also decree a thing, and it will be established
for you; and light will shine on your ways" (Job 22:28, NASB). Declarations
come from aligning our thoughts with God's and seeing His will, and then
partnering with Him by speaking His truth into existence. A definition of
declaration that I love is, “The formal announcement of the beginning of a state
or condition.” I believe that our words, spoken in faith together with the Holy
Spirit, have the power to alter circumstances and change the life course that we
are on.

Every morning when we get out of bed, we have a decision to make. We get
to choose what kind of day we are going to have. Now I understand that there
are days when things take place that are beyond our control. However, I'm
talking about normal, day-to-day attitudes that we get to choose each morning.
Some days I have woken up and have had to make a conscious choice to
choose life. I am a “feeler,” and because of that there have been times when it
has been hard for me to overcome my emotions and partner with life-giving
thoughts. Yet I’ve learned from experience that whatever emotion I decide to
partner with in the morning will most likely be the one that determines the type
of day that I am going to have.

What do you want in your life? Happiness? Healthy relationships? You can
actually decide to declare those things into existence with holy and godly
declarations. Remember that God wants to partner with you, too. He is rooting
for you. He is on your side. When you begin to unite your declarations with
who He says you are, you become a strong and powerful person. Look at these
two translations of the same biblical proverb:

Death and life are in the power of the tongue (Prov. 18:21, KJV).

Words kill, words give life; they're either poison or fruit— you choose
(Prov. 18:21, MSG).

Wow, what a powerful verse! You and I get to make the crucial choice to
speak kindly to ourselves. Unfortunately, many of us have become really good
at verbally abusing our bodies, minds, and spirits. It is eye-opening to listen to
the harsh and often cruel things that we say to ourselves. If we ask the
question, “Would I ever say that out loud to another person?" most of us would
answer, “No way!” Yet, we speak to ourselves like this on a daily basis—to
this wonderful person that Jesus died for! Thankfully, we can decide to change
these negative thought patterns.

in his book Declarations, Unlocking Your Future, Steve Backlund says that
“declarations are a main building material to frame the 'house’ of our
destiny.” What do you want your life and your future to look like? Stan
speaking those things to yourself.

To help me with this, one of the things that l have done is to partner with the
Holy Spirit, asking Him to reveal to me what His heart is for me. I find it easy
to declare the things that He says to me because I know that, above all others,
He is on my side.

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