Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

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jpat1975
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Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by jpat1975 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:55 am

When I first came to Christ, I was really enthusiastic about my new found faith. There was a certain individual who at first seemed welcoming, but later a bit difficult. I couldn't understand it at first. When I became a Christian I didn't yet appreciate how diverse and divided things were. I didn't have a church group at the time, and had come to learn about biblical things both in the bible and what others were discussing online. I figured that anyone who wasn't catholic, was protestant and therefore ALL on the same side of things :-) Yes, I was naive. Any way, to make a long story short, this guy was quite liberal. When I had talked with him about my unsaved catholic family members, he chided me, and took offence to me trying to witness to them. He talked about not judging, and suggested that it was impossible to ever remove the speck out of a brothers eyes, because there is a huge log in our own eyes. He didn't go into detail, but that was the message I got overall. He came across as bitter and impatient. Later on I would still email and share things with him about various topics. At one point I was discussing about how the church was like the bride of Christ, and that hit a sore spot. In what seemed an unguarded moment, he mentioned about his divorce. I just found him really like nabal in the bible - too difficult to talk to. All the while he came across like an overly educated snob, too important. The one thing that made me think he might be saved, was his mention early on of seeing an end times style movie as a child, and coming to Christ that way (I heard his in testimony he posted at a church website, or something). That plus a possibly charismatic grandmother and relative were also in his life at some point. His background is Mennonite, but now he's Presbyterian (the liberal flavour). He mentioned about a divorce, and that that later church had welcomed he and his ex-wife (I presume) as a broken people. I couldn't quite fit all the pieces together. I know divorce is not easy, but a Christian ought to be not so difficult. He never once apologized, and I made a point to later apologize about any past tone, etc. He just never seemed interested. Unfriendly, and irritable (he once got really upset when I spelled "Ghandi" wrong, plus my pointing out that this famous man, without Christ, could not be saved). He just seems like an apostate Christian who has found a comfortable nominal religion with Christian trappings. Why does he even bother. Why the facade? Why the bitterness? I can't understand him. Have any of you had similar encounters with unfriendly and irritable Christians who never show regret for their manner? I can't reconcile those behaviours myself. I've had my own moments of unfriendliness and irritability - but it pains me to remain that way. My conscience doesn't let that continue. How can anyone who presents themselves as a Christian, but who does not seek to right things see themselves as saved? Any how, I'm sure my past lack of proper conversation didn't help matters, but I've tried to keep in touch with him over the years. He's mostly ignored me, and you'd think he'd have improved by now. I don't see any change in him. But my perspective is limited, so I can't say for sure.

How have you found liberal Christians? Do you know of any genuinely saved folks who fell into apostasy and are keeping up a facade? I'd be curious to hear how it went.

steve7150
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by steve7150 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:40 pm

He's mostly ignored me, and you'd think he'd have improved by now. I don't see any change in him. But my perspective is limited, so I can't say for sure.









But why are you so interested or fascinated by him? Sure he seems backslidden which is not uncommon and you can only speculate on the state of his salvation.
We usually don't have much influence over others except to be a good example and hope and pray they want what you have. Hopefully one day it will be he approaching you.

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Paidion
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by Paidion » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:44 pm

Liberal Christians have not necessarily fallen into apostasy or are "keeping up a facade."

Your description of this liberal Christian suggests that he is a difficult man with whom to communicate, but I suggest you keep trying, exhibiting to him an extra amount of grace and love. To me, he seems to be a truly needy person who requires a close friend.

I don't know why he would get "really upset" at your misspelling of "Ghandi". Are you still misspelling it? Or did you just get the "h" in the wrong place? Actually, it's spelled "Gandhi". While I'm at at, I may as well jump on you for a grammatical error (if it doesn't get YOU upset).

You wrote, "that later church had welcomed he and his ex-wife (I presume) as a broken people." You wouldn't say, "that later church had welcomed he," would you? I'm sure you would say, "welcomed him." So that doesn't change by adding "and his ex-wife". Thus "that later church had welcomed him and his ex-wife" is correct.

As for me, I don't get upset about other people's spelling errors or grammatical errors. But I sometimes point them out unless it causes resentment. Indeed, I appreciate being corrected by others when I make such errors. But I don't know you at all. Perhaps it irritates you when such errors are pointed out to you. If that is the case, I invite you to let me know, and I will never repeat this transgression.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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steve7150
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by steve7150 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:30 pm

Hopefully one day it will be he approaching you.






Paidion,
Should I have said "him approaching you"?

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morbo3000
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by morbo3000 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:43 pm

It sounds like you are struggling to reconcile your understanding of "Christian" with this person's character which is inconsistent with his identification as one.

I don't think this is a conservative vs. liberal problem. I am likely the most liberal person on this board. But I would never connect those behaviors/attitudes to his being a liberal.

One problem with all this, I think is defining Christianity by being saved from hell. And having right beliefs.

A better definition of Christian is "little Christ." You might have all sorts of weird beliefs and still desire to imitate Christ. But if a person claims to be a Christian, yet bears no fruits of Christ-like-ness, I would wonder why that person calls themselves a Christian.





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jpat1975
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by jpat1975 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:47 am

This is just me probably being too curious. :-) I can't relate to how a liberal thinks. It's a mystery to me.

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morbo3000
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by morbo3000 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:11 pm

I self-identify as a progressive. But that word is being thrown around so much, it's about as meaningless as the label "liberal." ;)

Religiously, I approach the bible as the best attempt made by people who encountered God, especially Jesus to capture that experience. I don't believe the bible is inspired not inerrant.

I grew up in evangelical churches believing the liberals were wishy-washy about the bible to excuse immorality. I don't know if that is true.

The people who have informed my beliefs are Marcus Borg, Walt Wink, Nadia Bloz-Weber, Rachel Held-Evans. None of them are relativists. Rather, they take Jesus very seriously. Just not in ways evangelicals do.

The hallmark liberal position I hold is of course full-recognition of LGBT people in marriage and church.


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When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Paidion
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Re: Why do LIBERAL "Christians" even bother?

Post by Paidion » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:35 pm

Steve 7150 wrote:Should I have said "him approaching you"?
No, you were right. "It will be he approaching you" is grammatically correct. For in the clause "it will be he" , the pronoun "he" is called a "subjective completion" and thus is in the subjective case as is the subject "it". The pronoun "him" must be an object, as in the sentence, "Joe hit him."

"My wife and I were at the party." — correct because "my wife and I" is subject of the verb "were", just as "I was at the party" is correct.

"Joe saw my wife and me." — correct because "my wife and me" is object of the verb "saw", just as "Joe saw me" is correct.

"The mayor gave the prize to my wife and me." — correct because "my wife and me" is object of the preposition "to", just as ""The mayor gave the prize to me" is correct.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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